Originally posted by lazs2
If all we need to close this is to answer raiders questions again....
1)Were there illegal weapons at Waco?
2)Were there illegal explosives at Waco?
3)Was Koresh sexually molesting children at Waco?
4)Did the Branch Davidians after the inital assault, come out and face their "day in court"?
5)Was the government trying to kill them or just force them to leave the compound?
6)Do you think you have the right to repulse government agents executing a legal search warrant with fire-arms?
7)Do you think as a citizen of this country you are obligated to abide by all laws
1.... maybe... maybe not.. none have ever been submitted for testing... certainly there were weapons but not even a great deal for that many people. No person has ever been charged with the crime... to do so would mean that the guns in question would be available to the surviving davidians lawyers.... no matter what... korresh invited law enforcement to examine all his weapons long before the raid. In my opinion... he probly was messing with conversions.... a crime but.... not worth killing or dying over and... just my opinion... no evidence of any converted weapons.
2... again.... who knows? none were given over for examination and even if there were a few... how is that a reason to kill and die? the local sheriff would have gladly searched the place if the ATF was too frieghtened.
3... I don't know. One girl claims that is so. in texas you can marry at 14... all the girls parents were living there. I also fail to see how if it were true that it was any concern of ATF or more so... a reason for a wee hours ninja full auto assault on a church.... and... it seems particularly odd that anyone would fear child abuse more than they would fear killing every single child in the home or that it would be more dangerous than spraying said home with full auto fire.
4... when karresh initially came out he was shot and people were killed.... in the end... people were machine gunned who tried to escape.... somewhere in between it may have been possible to surrender and not die but I can understand the fear in the church.
5... see 4.. I don't think that they were set on killing everyone.. I think that things snowballed and got out of hand. I think a lot ot the officers on the scene were indeed trying to kill davidians no matter what. I do not believe that it was a decision that was arrived at or even ordered. I believe it was the incompetence that got out of hand and spiraled that caused all the killing.
6....I believe people have the right to defend themselves. If the police fire first without provocation then the davidians were well within their rights... the court seems to agree.
7.... do you think the nazis at the death camps as soldiers and citizens were obligated to obey orders? I believe that you disobey one or more of the 5 million federal laws regularly and don't even know it. I believe that you (or any of us) don't even know half the time if what we are doing is illegal or not....
on a personal note.... I am a coward and obey laws every day that I know to be unconstitutional and immoral. My only excuse it that I do what I can to get them repealed..... which is not much.
I would ask you... do you obey every law that you are aware of? Would traffic violations make you an extremist and as such.... worth a ninja night, no knock raid on your compound? If illegal substances were found in your compound should I believe you or the feds? Governent troops shouldn't have to take a chance of being identified or injured to arrest you right?
lazs
A judge apparently believed there was suffiecient evidence and ordered not only a search warrant for the compound but an ARREST warrant for Koresh.
You conviently leave out the 2 months between the initial raid and the final assault that the BD's could walk out at anytime. Oh thats right 1/3 did leave and were ok. Too bad the rest didn't obey Law enforcement they would have been ok too.
I might agree with you on #5
You said yourself (I think you did anyway) no one knows who fired first, it is presumed an ATF agent shot a dog at the compound. That does not endanger anyone's life and is hardly worthy of shooting at people over.
Obeying orders as a soldier is different than obeying the law as a citizen. Military/Civilian
I'm sorry were the germans a free people? I thought it was a dictatorship and those people were forced to do things at the threat of death. That is a good point though.
There is a big difference between speeding and armed insurrection which is what I see WACO as having became after the initial raid.
Why just believe the feds, Why don't you go ask the UPS guy who deliever the 90 lbs of powdered AL to the compound. He was after all the one that made the report about explosives at the compound.
It's so that after arrest you don't go hey there's Joey well he's an ATF undercover agent and then your buddies or you go kill joey and his family. Not too mention if his identity is out he can no longer be safe undercover thus wasting all the money you spent training him to be said undercover agent.
I have had my rights violated numerous times by regular law enforcement. Traffic stops turning into searches for no reason. I have yet to have the "Ninja's" raid my house. I worry more about corrupt local cops than I do federal ninjas. lol
