Kids, religion, and atheism

[Chairboy]

Howdy!

As y'all might know, I've got two kids.  The oldest, Marcus, is 3.5 and starting to ask questions about how things work, and the wife and I have been discussing a tricky situation: How to handle the 'R' word.  

When it comes to religion, we're both very comfortable in our atheism.  We have no doubts, the same way most of you do (though perhaps in different directions) on the existence of god.

We've both talked in general about how we planned to let our kids decide for themselves what religions to follow and to make their own informed choices, but as Marcus talks, we're realizing that the original "comprehensive history of religions, basic overviews of theologies, comparative studies" etc etc that we had planned for when the kids were 8-9 years old plan isn't going to be enough, because the kids are going to start asking questions way before they can understand those subjects.

My kids plays with other kids, and sooner or later some kid is going to mention god or jebus or allah or whatever and my son is going to ask me: Who is god?  

If I answer "some people believe that there's" and then a definition of God, properly translated for him, he'll still come back and want to know IS there or ISN'T there one?  He won't care about conflicting theories, the concept of correlation != causation, etc etc, he'll want to know what mommy and daddy think.

When we first discussed the subject years ago, we decided to 'let the kid choose', but we realize now that the foundation that house is built on is put down really early, in what the kids hear from their parents and what they learn when they're young.

One on hand, we could just say "No, there is no god", then that sorta stacks the deck in favor of atheism for when the kid is older and 'chooses'.  

On the other hand....  why should the religious folks get a free pass on indoctrinating their kids and we have to sit back and be respectful?  Do we shelve the whole 'let them choose' concept and teach them how we believe, and accept that we're basically making the choice for them the way 99% of religious parents already do every day?

I'd like to hear some thoughts on the subject.  I'll have to make the decision with my wife in the end, but if there are any talking points that would help us make this decision, I'd love to hear 'em.

[lasersailor184]

As much as you think you will be tolerant of your child's choices, I can tell you that you really won't be.  The grasp you hold over your child even by actions is amazing.  So just keep that in mind.


The best thing you can do (I think) is to do anything the kid asks.  If the kid asks what Church is, go to one with him.  If the kid asks what the difference is, show him, not tell him.



Just know that you being there and being an atheist has more sway over his religious choices then anything else.

[storch]

why are you seeking validation on a bulletin board?

[StarOfAfrica2]

Regardless of what you say or do, he really will form his own opinion.  Your beliefs will always color that, but in what way is up to you.

My parents dragged me to church all the time as a kid, I never wanted to go.  As a teenager I found ways to get out of going.  As an adult I went even less, if at all.  I'm not an Athiest, but I bounced around several different ways trying to figure out what I really believed.  I was always sure whatever it turned out to be, it wouldnt be anything like what my parents dragged me to.  

I may still not agree with every point of doctrine their church teaches, but my core values have come around to be pretty close to theirs.  I came at it from a different direction, but I still arrived in almost the same place.

Parenting questions dont get any eaiser.  Good luck.

[Sandman]

At this point, I think it's okay if they share your beliefs. When they get older, they'll be looking for ways to disagree with you anyway.

Don't hide your atheism. Your kids will think it's something they should hide.


...and don't be afraid to allow religion into the house. I'm an atheist. I've got a few bibles, some books on wicca, and even some satanist stuff around here somewhere.

[Octavius]

They can make their own decision when enough information is available.

[megadud]

tell him your old name used to be jesus that way everything they hear about him he will think it is you and you will be teh man! And when he gets older you can tell him about athiesm.

[Yeager]

If the kids have any brains it wont matter what you tell em......

But, when in doubt let them know all the choices, the pros and cons and let em know you will help em out whenever they need a tie breaker.

[Pooface]

Originally posted by megadud
tell him your old name used to be jesus that way everything they hear about him he will think it is you and you will be teh man! And when he gets older you can tell him about athiesm.

lol, that would be pretty funny

when i was younger i walked up to some old guy on the street, and asked if he was jesus. he looked at me like i was some little stunninghunk, and told me to mind my manners i was like 3 yrs old

[Chairboy]

Yeah, pretty much what we'd discussed too.  We definitely won't hide our atheism, and I guess we're not going to be any different from religious families that indoctrinate their kids when they're young, either.

Storch, shush.  Your motives in that post are not pure.

I'll talk with wifey more about this when she gets back, I think we've got a plan.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Chairboy

I got a 5 and a 3.5 year old.  I was thinking of letting them grow and letting them chose.  I found, that way too many people go out of their way to enforce their belifs on them (school, day care, relatives, friends etc).

So, if you don't tell your kids if there is a god, someone else will.  Tell them what you think and as they get older and understand more, tell them that you don't know for sure, or that you do know for sure, or encurage them to search.  Just don't let someone else do it for you.

Two things I have found.
1) The more you learn the less you believe
2) If you don't talk to your kids, some one else will.  Religius people have no respect for anyones beliefs but theirs.  And god told them to spread the word, so get ready for some tough times.

[Simaril]

Gotta remember that his brain is still developing, and abstractions are simply gibberish to him -- they'll be lilke a sunset to a blind man.

But, most kids his age get the idea of "maybe' and "soem people think this" and "we think that."

Seeing where you're coming from, consider being simple but honest.  He'd probably be up to something like "some people believe that there is a god who made everything, and others dont think there is a god. Those people think things happen by themselves." If he asks what you believe, tell him.

And remember that kids this age have concrete ideas even when their questoins sound like they're abstract. So, when a 3 year old says "where did I come from" he ususally means what city, not what biologic process. Its OK to give partial answers that meet his cognitive needs now -- and for many kids, you can even say something like "that's a really good question, but its something that is easier to understand when you're a bigger kid" and they'll be cool with it, especially if you give them a technically correct, concrete answer that doesnt necessarily cover everything YOU understand. (For example, out stock answer when our toddlers asked where babies come from -- "when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much, sometimes god gives them a baby." It's not complete, its not even all that accurrate, but its a start and it gave them a concrete answer that satisfied them.)

[Chairboy]

Dedalos/Simaril, excellent points, thanks!

[WMLute]

Religion, and God, are personal choices.  And it's your job to educate your children on God.  Unfort. because you are choosing to NOT provide your kids with a religious life, some one, some where down the line, is going to.

I hope it's not some speaking in tongues, snake dancin' cult one of their friends attends that they go to for the first time after a sleep over.  Seen this very situation happen on a couple occasions.  The parent didn't provide their kids with a formal religion to follow, so when the child DOES find one, they are hooked instantly.  Just pray (errr... oh yeah. n/m on the pray bit)... just HOPE that when they have that experience, they are exposed to a decent type church.

Children need religion.  Children need God.  You, as an adult, made the decision that you don't.  That's fine.  You are an adult.  But don't do such a horrible thing to your kids.  Make sure that your children are informed, and if that means picking out, and attending a church of your choice for the next 10-15 years, well, you could do worse things on a Sunday, and one hour a week to help your children is hardly a huge sacrifice.  You as the parent should be more than happy to make such a small sacrifice to help out your kids.  

(my 2 cents)

(g/l w/ the snake cult bit in 10yrs)

[Munkii]

Originally posted by WMLute
Children need religion.  Children need God.  

I never believed in God or Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.  Infact the more my family tried to convince me the more I'd ask questions and not believe them.  Children don't NEED[/B] religion.  They need loving parents and a stable home and environment to grow.  Whether that environment contains any religious teachings makes no difference.  Forcing religion on children has become something so indoctrined in our society that it's equivalent to trying to keep Santa Claus out of your house.  Too much media and corporate exposure that they would at least ask.

Kids will ask about religion because kids are curious.  Kids CAN[/B] make their own choices even at a young age.  They ask because they want to know, and they make decisions.  I based mine on my own 2 year old logic, I can't speak for any other child what they base theirs on, but the parents are probably a large part of it.  That may seem to be a hypocritical statement when paired with what I said in the other paragraph, but my mother and grandparents who raised me also taught me to make my own choices and think through everything I do.  I decided that religion didn't fit into my logic matrix when I was younger.