Author Topic: Kids, religion, and atheism  (Read 1305 times)

Offline megadud

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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2005, 02:57:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii
I never believed in God or Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.




he's real dood! :eek:

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2005, 05:49:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii
I never believed in God or Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.  Infact the more my family tried to convince me the more I'd ask questions and not believe them.  Children don't NEED religion.  They need loving parents and a stable home and environment to grow.  Whether that environment contains any religious teachings makes no difference.  Forcing religion on children has become something so indoctrined in our society that it's equivalent to trying to keep Santa Claus out of your house.  Too much media and corporate exposure that they would at least ask.

Kids will ask about religion because kids are curious.  Kids CAN[/B] make their own choices even at a young age.  They ask because they want to know, and they make decisions.  I based mine on my own 2 year old logic, I can't speak for any other child what they base theirs on, but the parents are probably a large part of it.  That may seem to be a hypocritical statement when paired with what I said in the other paragraph, but my mother and grandparents who raised me also taught me to make my own choices and think through everything I do.  I decided that religion didn't fit into my logic matrix when I was younger. [/B]


Absolutely agree here. I got kicked out of Sunday School (well not kicked out, they asked my parents not to send me along anymore) because I simply asked to many of those difficult questions.

I was an avid reader as a child, and had read most of HG Wells, Jules Verne, a few Heinlein, and some other good sci fi authors by a fairly young age. About the same time I read the bible. Now my parents were christians, but not staunch christians. So I guess my biblical reading was a bit more abstract than the indoctrinational style the sunday school would've preferred.

My children will get a religious education, but it will be abstract enough that they can make their own decisions.

wmlute, a question, which sect of christianity do you recommend - and how do you know its the right one?

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2005, 05:56:22 PM »
I didnt get kicked out of sunday school for asking quesitons, I got kicked out for punching the kid across the room in the stomach and dropping him to the floor.  That didnt go over well.  I do believe in God, but I never did take well to the whole "turn the other cheek" thing.  Anyway, that has nothing to do with the conversation.  Sorry.

Offline WMLute

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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2005, 07:52:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
My children will get a religious education, but it will be abstract enough that they can make their own decisions.

wmlute, a question, which sect of christianity do you recommend - and how do you know its the right one?


excellent question.

I don't advocate any certain denomination over another.  It mostly boils down to finding one that you are comfortable with/in, and what "feels" right to you.

I feel that I didn't really explain myself enough in that last post.

As parents, we are here to teach, and guide our children.  Not "force" our ideas/opinions upon them.  I am a firm believer of leading by example.  If I want my two sons to grow into honorable men, I have to show them what an honorable man acts like.  It is not easy.  I have to make numerous sacrifces, but hey, that's what a Dad does.  It's no longer about what is best for me.  I lost that option when I became a Dad.  It's what's best for THEM.  I try to keep that in the forefront of my decisions in life.  

In my opinion, a Church is the best place to teach moral values that we have in our society.  Thinking that, I felt that it was important to find a church that I was comfortable with, and was full of people I respected.  I was lucky and found a Baptist church that was extrememly Biblically based, and practiced what they preach.  I have posted here before that it is one of the only churches that you will find in this world, that offers 100% free medical, mental health, and dental services to anyone at all.  They pay for a clinic that is staffed by volunteer doctors and nurses (and dentists) that will not accept money for their services.  It's called Ministries of Jesus.   Here's a quote from their webpage.
Quote
The Ministries of Jesus is open to everyone seeking help...young, old, rich, poor, insured, uninsured, Christian, non-Christian. The ministry consists of volunteer practitioners dedicated to healing of the body, soul and spirit who donate their time and use their God-given talents to help those in need.

LINK

BUT my point is, I found a church that I could get behind, that wasn't just mouthing the words, but backed them up, and that is important to me.    My boys are cub scouts (we've won their pine wood derby 3yrs running heh) and that is another place I feel that will instill positive moral values.  Just like my church pick, I shopped around a couple scout groups before I found one that fit my needs.  

Mostly, it is surrounding your children with positive role models, and morals.
If you can find a better place than a church, GREAT!  I have never found anything that comes close, but again, what works for me, isn't going to work for everybody.

I was most encouraged by the original post.  It showed me a parent who cares, and is wanting what is best for their child.  I only hope they have the will, and intestinal fortitude to make what ever sacrifice they have to make to keep their two children walking down a morally righteous path, and can guide them so they can grow into wonderful adults.
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
— George Patton

Absurdum est ut alios regat, qui seipsum regere nescit

Offline crowMAW

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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2005, 07:55:34 PM »
Chair, I'm going to recommend you try a different forum:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

Look and post in the sub-forum called Secular Lifestyle.  I've frequently seen other non-theist parents asking this same question in this sub-forum.

My $.02: When they ask about God(s), be factual about other's beliefs, ie "many people in America believe that there is a powerful person that created everything and can do anything and knows everything and who lives in a place called Heaven...etc (fill in whatever parts of the mythology you think is appropriate)."  If your kids ask if it is true and you want them to be able to decide on their own when the time is right, tell them that you "don't know if it is true or not...God can't be seen or heard in the way you can see or hear Mommy or me.  But many people think he must be real and they have faith that He is real even though they can't see or hear Him."

Good luck...

storch

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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2005, 08:10:28 PM »
why chairboy whatever do you mean?

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2005, 08:20:39 PM »
My kid was baptised, went to sunday school, received communion. Neither her mother or myself were in the slightest bit 'religious'. Didn't stop us from going to church while she was in her Sunday School years. Initially this was a source of great friction between the wife and I.. she wanted none of it. Being something of an opportunist, I wanted my kid to have every possible advantage of a balanced education and I felt that exposure to religion in the presence of her peers (and ours) was better than most other forms of exposure.  

We were frank, but uncommital on religious or secular questions. Our answers sounded surprisingly like Simarils.. we let her make up her own mind. We encouraged her to ask questions, refused to ridicule the church or the programs (despite my personal distaste for the stuff). When she was 19 or so she said 'thanks' for making her do the Sunday School thing.. she at least understands what it's all about and can hold her own easily in a theological debate.

Shes also (currently) an agnostic, which annoys her mother no end. Of course her mother would call documented proof of the second coming Republican Propoganda orchestrated by Hollywood Sellouts.

My kid and I??? Well, we're awaiting proof still.

;)
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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2005, 08:25:22 PM »
"When it comes to religion, we're both very comfortable in our atheism. We have no doubts, the same way most of you do (though perhaps in different directions) on the existence of god."

This is one thing I've never really understood.  How can anyone have no doubts about this particular subject?  No matter which side you choose to believe, you can't prove it and thus can't objectively be "sure".  It's a leap of faith regardless.


As far as your kids go, teach them whatever your conscience is most at ease with.  They're your kids.  Odds are no matter what you teach then, they'll develop their own religious philosophy anyway.

J_A_B

Offline Larry

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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2005, 09:10:42 PM »
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
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July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline tikky

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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2005, 09:25:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Larry
Click


:lol

PS Jesus was not white as portrayed in all euro arts, ect.  I'll guess he looks like umm Middle Eastern guy (black hair with Arab features)

Offline Nash

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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2005, 09:34:18 PM »
Easy.

Honesty.

You may be an athiest, but you can't say empirically that there is no God. You have your suspicions, but you don't know.

"I don't know" says you.... "I really don't think so, but, I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, nobody does, one way or the other."

That's honest, right? And that's all you can possibly do.

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2005, 09:35:44 PM »
Question, Nash, do the christian parents here do the same thing?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Nash

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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2005, 09:36:37 PM »
Doubt it.

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2005, 09:38:28 PM »
Then why does my 'religion' have to take one on the chin?  That's one of the things I'm conflicted about.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Nash

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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2005, 09:44:12 PM »
It doesn't, though.

Their kids end up with dogma, your kids up with reason and critical thinking.

If that reason leads them to religion - so be it.

Either way, they are miles ahead of the other kids.

I think the trick is in showing your own sense of critical thinking when talking about it with them. Not a sense of this is the way it is..... but.... it's a good question, worthy of thought .