Messerschmitt Me 410A-1/U4

[Krusty]

lol s'all good

[*NDM*JohnnyX]

Well I think we all more or less agree this would be a good plane to add. I hope one day I can put up a wall of 20mm's for those pesky lil la's to stumble through.

[syncrII]

Originally posted by *NDM*JohnnyX
Close up of the rotary rocket bay:

Moin
About the rotary rocket bay here are some infos:
In German:
Eine weitere Me 410 wurde für die Verwendung Werfer-Granate WGr. 21 umgebaut. Anstelle der starren Waffen wurde im Rumpfbug eine sich im Uhrzeigersinn drehende Trommel mit sechs Werferrohren eingebaut, von der jeweils eins zum Schluß freilag, während die anderen innerhalb des Rumpfes verblieben. Nach der Vorerprobung des Gerätes wurde die Maschine zur Erprobungsstelle Tarnewitz überführt. Die dort durchgeführten Schießversuche befriedigten nicht; die sich beim Schuß stauenden Pulvergase sprengten die gesamte Bugverkleidung der Me 410 ab.

Now i try to translate.
One singel Me 410 was chaned for use with werfer-Granate WGR. 21.
This rotary rocket bay replaced the guns in the nose (dont know if it replaced all). This rotary did rotate in clock direction. Only one WGr was open ready to fire. The others was inside. After the first testing the ME was send to the Testing Airfild (Erprobungsstelle) Tarnewitz. The fire tests at this airfild wasn t realy sucesful. The main problem was that the gas (smog/ Pulvergase) of the rockets blow of the compled front part of the me 410.

hope i transleted god enought so you can understand.

cu chris3

[Krusty]

I've actually seen black and white film footage of the doors and how they closed over that setup. It was rather cool to see it on film. This was years ago on some obscure discovery wings show.

[Bonzzz]

Originally posted by Krusty
The U4 was indeed the factory designation for the BK5 cannon. Note that U is factory modification, not the same as R4, which is something that can be taken off/put on in the field.

I did a couple google searches.

Me 410A-1 had this armament: 2 x MG 131 + 2 x MG 151 + 2 x MG 131 (rear barbettes) + 1000 kg bomb load

However some had 7mm MG17s before going to MG131s. My book is brief on the matter, and only covers the 410 in short detail. The book says that some were destroyer versions with 4 forward firing MG151/20s, or 2 MG151/20s and a BK5 with 21 rounds (that would be the U4 but the book doesn't mention the designation). The A-2/U-2 was a night fighter with SN-2 Lichtenstein radar and 2 MG151s and 2 MK108s.

The book mentions "Many of the 1,121 ME410s carried Rutsatz packs housing two or more mg151, mk108, or mk103, and [EDIT: Check this out!!] occasionally experienced pilots fitted as many as eight MG151/20s all firing ahead."

Yea, this would be a cool plane to have in the game. What people don't realize though is that it was designed as a bomber killer. Thats why it was so heavily armed. Unfortunately it really didn't have that much better performance in the air than the Me110. And when it was fully loaded with guns and ammo I guess it just got down right hard to maneuver. I do know that the Hungarians used the Me210 quite a bit, mainly for ground attack though. I think they used the Me410 some too but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I'd love to see the plane in the game but I doubt alot of people would fly it much after they found out they can't turn and burn like in their Spits and LAs.

[EagleDNY]

Having the 410 would be interesting.   If HT is concerned about the 50mm cannon creating a buff sniper, I'd suggest just making that a perked variant.  

Frankly, we got the Hurri IID with twin 40mms, which you could also use as a buff killer that way if you were so inclined.  Also, of the 8,600-odd Hurricanes made, only 300 or so were IID's, so having an unknown number of 50mm armed - 410's out of 1000 or so built shouldn't really be an issue either.

EagleDNY  

[Krusty]

Hurr2D is not the same. Those guns are meant for armor penetration of GVs. You would NEVER be able to fly behind a formation of bombers at 1.5k-2k and just fire a single shot and destroy the bomber in your sights. THat's what you would be able to do with the 50mm gun on the 410, and why we won't see it.

[Tails]

Originally posted by Krusty
Hurr2D is not the same. Those guns are meant for armor penetration of GVs. You would NEVER be able to fly behind a formation of bombers at 1.5k-2k and just fire a single shot and destroy the bomber in your sights....

That and the fact that the Hurri 2d cant fly fast enough to catch any other bomber other than a Ju-87 in a tailchase (and that might be pushing it )

[EagleDNY]

I understand the argument that it could create an unstoppable buff killer, but I think the reality would be that 1) escorts would eat it for lunch, and 2) getting a 410 out and up to altitude to intercept a buff formation would be difficult before the buffs reached their target.

I'd give a 410 a try if it were available, but for intercepting an incoming bomber stream there a plenty of other rides I'd pick first.  I think you'd see the 50mm being tried out on tanks & ships more than on bombers.

EagleDNY
.02

[Tails]

Escorts? In AH2?!?

Buffs at altittude? In AH2?!?

What are you smoking, and may I have some?

[*NDM*JohnnyX]

These were primarily my worries when originially posting this thread. You can decimate a bomber flight with a 110 as it is now, but on the flip side the Me-410 does not need the 50mm to be included in the game. I think enough 410s were produced with other setups to justify having it in AHII.

[frank3]

The Me-410 (210) had actually been created to replace the Me-110, but in the end, the Me-110 survived the propaganda...

And the 110 had been created to be a bomber destroyer, being able to chase the bombers all the way down to England, we don't need another plane for this task IMO

[*NDM*JohnnyX]

Then why all the versions of Spitfires and 109s?

[lasersailor184]

Frankly, we got the Hurri IID with twin 40mms, which you could also use as a buff killer that way if you were so inclined. Also, of the 8,600-odd Hurricanes made, only 300 or so were IID's, so having an unknown number of 50mm armed - 410's out of 1000 or so built shouldn't really be an issue either.

Thank god you're not a sniper, because you're way off mark.

The Hurricane definately had more then 300 built, I'll dig up the numbers again, but 1500 sticks out in my mind.

Not only that, but the dual 40mm's on the Hurricane are AP rounds.  Basically, really really big bullets.  They do not explode on contact.  Nor are they insta kill shots on Buffs.  They don't even kill 100% of the time against fighters.

The Hurricane can catch all the buffs easily with the exception of the Ju87.  The 87 actuall moves pretty fast.


But of course you are speaking from experience, right?  That's how you can come out and make all these statements, right?

[frank3]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Not only that, but the dual 40mm's on the Hurricane are AP rounds.  Basically, really really big bullets.  They do not explode on contact.  Nor are they insta kill shots on Buffs.  They don't even kill 100% of the time against fighters.

The Hurricane can catch all the buffs easily with the exception of the Ju87.  The 87 actuall moves pretty fast.

The bullets would go clean trough the skin of an aircraft, maybe inflicting some damage on armored parts


Are you sure you mean the Ju-87? Not the 88?