Author Topic: War - China vrs USA  (Read 2802 times)

Offline Boroda

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War - China vrs USA
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2005, 11:13:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
True.  There is no way we can declare war on China.  Who is going to finance our federal debt?

Day 1 - War is declared.
Day 2 - China stops exporting goods to the US.
Day 2+x - Every Wal-Mart, Dollar General, Big Lots, and Radio Shack closes as inventories dry up and the rest of the Asian market is unable to ramp up production to meet demand.  The price of electronics increases 10-fold.


Day 2+y - China has to pay Russia for accepting it's consumer goods.

Day 2+z - Trans-Siberian and Baikal-Amur railways are jammed by trains loaded with Chinese goods.

Day 2+N (sorry, N is too much, let it be Day2+K) - Russia finally builds Communism 25 years after it was promised by Khruschev. :rofl

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2005, 11:30:09 AM »
What Hang just said.  Japan invade the pacific rim in order to keep resources flowing into it.  The pacific rim can't give their resources to China fast enough (in exchange for chinese goods).  However, as they interdependance grows it bebooves China to want to be able to militarily protect it.  Hence they are shifting from a "let's protect our border (bufffer) state interests" paradigm, to a "let's be able to project military power over the pacific rim" paradigm.

Either way, no way in hell is China and the US going to have a conventional war in the forseeable future.  Then again, perhaps the US and China will have a few proxy wars.  But, I don't see how it would be in the US interests to do that.

Offline Rino

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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2005, 11:41:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Russian
What would happen if a couple hundred saboteur units, similar to Spetsnaz, end up on the US soil?


     Yeah there is no possible way we could figure out who they were or
where they came from :rolleyes:   The only thing that could keep them
going is the liberals crying about profiling :lol
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2005, 11:50:51 AM »
Rino, I have to respectfully disagree with you.  Arresting/harassing the twelve MILLION asians who live here who are as American as you and I is really not the right thing to do.
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2005, 12:09:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Russian
What would happen if a couple hundred saboteur units, similar to Spetsnaz, end up on the US soil?


If they landed in Kalifornia or Massachusettes, they'd win and we'd MAKE them keep them. :p
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2005, 12:12:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Day 2+y - China has to pay Russia for accepting it's consumer goods.

Day 2+z - Trans-Siberian and Baikal-Amur railways are jammed by trains loaded with Chinese goods.

Day 2+N (sorry, N is too much, let it be Day2+K) - Russia finally builds Communism 25 years after it was promised by Khruschev. :rofl


Day 3  The russians would all get frustrated at not being able to figure out how to use all those electric goodies and then drink themselves to death.
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Offline cav58d

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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2005, 01:07:47 PM »
Chinas airforce is something to be very concerned about...Especially the
SU-30MKK...I think that hands down the raptor would absoutley PWN anything in the skies, but how would 15's, 16's and 18's hold up against the sukhoi
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Offline cav58d

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« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2005, 01:09:02 PM »
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/index.html

All the info you have ever wanted 2 know about Chinas military
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Offline Russian

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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2005, 01:13:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
If they landed in Kalifornia or Massachusettes, they'd win and we'd MAKE them keep them. :p
Socialist Republic of Kalifornia is half-communist already, so it should be no difficult feat.    :lol

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2005, 01:14:14 PM »
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Russia finally builds Communism 25 years after it was promised by Khruschev


Hehe.. With communist way of things you'd all die to starvation. Hell you couldn't even support your own nation let alone export to china.
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2005, 01:37:08 PM »
We wouldn't lose, but probably couldn't "win" either.  With our intel gathering abilities and various other advanced technologies, we could do a pretty good job of chopping apart their command and control structure to the point where they couldn't mount a cohesive offensive or even a coordinated defense.  The usual problem of course is that "winning" doesn't necessarily mean just eliminating the govt and taking enough strategic positions to cripple a nation.  Countries nowadays are willing to enter drawn out wars of attrition even when it is an otherwise lost cause in the sense that whatever national entity survives will not be the same as the one in place at the beginning of the war.

A conventional war in China would probably start with an extremely fast paced and violent assault on certain infrastructure and leadership, and I suspect that we would be successful in eliminating their ability to coordinate their efforts except for the types of coordination that could be accomplished by couriers essentially on foot.  But since we're a kinder/gentler sort of nation now, we would avoid hitting civilian infrastructure and that guarantees that a drawn out low intensity conflict would be immediately entered upon the end of the first phase of the war.  The average citizen would have little incentive to stop fighting so they'd keep fighting as long as they had food.  Not taking out their power plants, water sources, etc. would just empower the resistance forces.

The key thing to realize is that there is no currently acceptable way to convince the entire nation to give up, regardless of the use of conventional or nuclear weapons.  The more we modernize our military and make it more efficient in achieving specific military goals with less collateral damage, the more our military becomes a defensive tool.  We currently possess the ability to completely dismantle the leadership and command structure of any nation on earth in a matter of days, but we do not have the forces or nationl willpower to do much after reducing the organized military opposition.  Iraq is proving that even though we have fairly good intentions regarding the future of Iraq, we are simply not set up to occupy and rebuild a nation that was disarmed but which never surrendered.  It's an important distinction to make and although we're persisting in Iraq out of a sense of moral obligation after trashing their national infrastructure and government, we're essentially forcing a square peg into a round hole.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
well put eagl.
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2005, 01:58:53 PM »
It struck me recently how people fail to compare meaningful stats between WWII and later wars.

It took MILLIONS of people to win WWI and WWII and the military portion of the war lasted until the very end.  With less than 300,000 troops actively engaged in the conflict, we took out Afghanistan and Iraq militarily in a matter of weeks.  But without those millions of boots on the ground, neither nation will ever be truly pacified and the "war" will end only when we declare victory and leave.  Even Korea is getting old, and after we leave Iraq it's only a matter of time before we make a real go at pulling out there too.

But it's important to look at the scale of the conflicts, and remember how many troops it really takes to capture a given region and truly pacify a particular number of people.  One could argue that it takes 2 million troops or 2 rather spectacular explosions, but that's pretty unrealistic nowadays.  Nobody cares enough to really WIN anymore.  That's probably a good thing in the long run but it's obviously frustrating in the short term.
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2005, 02:09:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cav58d
Chinas airforce is something to be very concerned about...Especially the
SU-30MKK...I think that hands down the raptor would absoutley PWN anything in the skies, but how would 15's, 16's and 18's hold up against the sukhoi


but what you are comparing is plane vrs plane.  This is not how modern air combat is fought anymore.

Probably the biggest enabler of the Chinese air force is their recent purchase of several Russian tankers and cargo aircraft.  This allows projection of power.  A souped up Su30 is no match against a squadron of any 15 16 or 18s if it only has 5 minutes of lingering time on the battlefield.  Then you have other force multipliers such as AWACS and other logistics.

You can buy yourself a farrari but if you don't have the mait to support it and the supply to keep it flying and the fuel to make it race.......it's just another car.

Offline Glasses

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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2005, 02:32:53 PM »
I predict in the not so distant future the Japanese will annex several Asian countries using their Bi-Pedal tanks.

Since the Japanese cannot use a  conventional Army/Air Force for self defense and it's a clause in their own constituion that prohibits them from actually seeking out those types of weapons they'll invest in that technology.

Heck I posted a video of some Japanese engineer that actually got a  primitive mecha working so it's only a matter of time before they become quite common in their own military and the US military as well.

I mean for the Love of K.T. the "robots" the US Army and Air Force use(aside from the Predator UAV), are quite shameful they look like rejects from those battling robot shows Gah!

I bet on the Japanese will eventually get or abolish the clauses in their own constitution thatprohibit them from acquiring those types of weapons. I mean how can you let a pseudo ally of the USA be defenseless against an assumed "growing" North Korean and Chinese Threat.