Author Topic: What to do with American Taliban John Walker? (Read 4947 times)

aknimitz · « **on:** December 20, 2001, 07:16:00 PM »

OK ... at first I was convinced I knew what to do to this man. Treason I say, give him the death penalty. But the I got to visiting with pops, and reflecting back on my legal education. I dont understand how this could possibly be treason. It is not as if he was over there fighting with the Americans, and then secretly giving information to the Taliban. Or as if he actually aided in the September 11 attacks.

What does seem clear is that he chose to take sides against the United States for whatever reason. He chose to oppose US policies and beliefs, and join the Taliban. Is he not entitled to do this? I would certainly think he is. If we went to war with say China ... and lets say a large number of Americans of Chinese decent went to China to fight for China ... would they be subject to the death penalty? Are they entitled to oppose United States policy? Yes, I think they should be.

Now, what happens when American citizens do this? Treason? I just dont think so. Seems to me that the best thing to do is take away their citizenship, and ban them from the US. If they want to support the Taliban (or China) - so be it. But fight against us, or take sides against us, and you aint comin' back to live with us.

Nim

Kieran · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2001, 08:37:00 PM »

It ain't that simple. The Taliban has strong anti-American overtones, and they are very clear about them. The U.S.S. Cole, the first WTC attack, etc. made clear what they were about. Our young friend picked his side. He needs to be accountable. Law says treason is punishable by death? He knew this. A good talibani is willing to die for his beliefs? Let's put his belief to the test.

This is no time for going soft.

And more... how much easier would it be to pass as an American than an American citizen? How easy it would be for him to be in a position to do worse than was done 9/11? Turn him loose? Are you crazy? In war you diminish the number of enemies you have.

This ain't fishin', and we shouldn't tag and release.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Kieran ]

batdog · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2001, 08:48:00 PM »

He was part of an organization that was in conflict w/the U.S. He is a traitor, plain and simple. He should be treated as such. The U.S has MANY ways to display you oppostion to current policy. Joining the side that your fighting against isnt one of them.. as I said before... what he did was treason.

xBAT

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2001, 09:05:00 PM »

Tac · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2001, 09:20:00 PM »

sorry. He was captured with an assault rifle AMONGST the ranks of enemy soldiers, fighting ALONG an enemy the US has declared war upon.

It is TREASON.

You think there would be any argument if he had been found with a Mauser rifle in the Sigfried Line fighting along Nazi troops in the 1940's?

midnight Target · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:06:00 PM »

Ok, the kid sucks pond water and deserves death, but he has not broken any laws. He was holding an AK and may have even fired upon NA soldiers. No law broken there. He may have fired on a plane going by.....stupid, possible malicious mischeif, but treason hasn't happened. There was no treason if there was no declared war.
We are gonna have to kill him by "accident"

aknimitz · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:30:00 PM »

Guys, where is the treason? Treason as defined by American law requires some allegiance sworn to the United States (citizenship I assume would work). Seems to me that his fighting for the Taliban should be interpreted as constructive renouncing of his citizenship. Tell me what laws he has broken, and your basis for saying what laws he has broken.

Nim

Weave · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:32:00 PM »

I think I'd give him back to the Afganies, they could treat him just like any other foreign Taliban fighter. Maybe you've seen some of what they do to them on the news?

Kieran · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:33:00 PM »

I think you miss the point. This isn't a legalistic debate in my mind, it is a matter of sides and which one he's on. He's an American fighting for them. That seems crystal clear to me.

Fatty · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:47:00 PM »

Unless he has renounced his citizenship, and I have yet to see any indication he has, he can be tried for treason. While not an open and shut case, there is well more than enough to bring to trial. He could also be charged with conspiracy to commit sedition, conspiracy in the murder of a US citizen (CIA agent), conspiracy to commit terrorism, and any other number of smaller charges originating from those he has chosen to cast his lot with.

A lot of those, by the way, capable of bringing the death penalty just as much as treason.

Reschke · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:01:00 PM »

He allegedly lost his passport in transit to the point where he was captured initially.

From my limited knowledge of the legal aspects I don't think he deserves the right to still be called an American citizen. To me it seems like he wanted to become a member of Islam and specifically the Taliban. In support of a "true islamic" nation. So he should suffer the same fate as they (other members of the Taliban both foreign and native to Afghanistan) have at the hands of the current government.

aknimitz · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:46:00 PM »

Kieren, human rights. Who says he is on the American side? You can just say, "He was born in this country, never changed his citizenship, was fighting with Taliban, and thus committed treason." Maybe you can, I'm really not sure. Just an interesting issue I think from an International Human Rights perspective.

Nim

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2001, 03:14:00 AM »

QUOTE:
Seems to me that his fighting for the Taliban should be interpreted as constructive renouncing of his citizenship.

Well according to this idea no American could ever be tried for treason, just imagine if every traitor said this at the trial, "Well judge the second before I commited the treasonous act I was no longer an American and wasnt really betraying my country since I was obviously fighting for my real (whichever new) side."

Sorry thats total BS reasoning.

Once again:

kill

Tumor · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2001, 03:25:00 AM »

Walker has not committed treason, thats why he's not being charged with Treason.

He did (not to argue, but...<shrug> ) however break certain laws having to do with providing support to terrorists/terr organizations. We know this because he ~SAID~ he is, was and will be Al-Queda along with other things like support for the WTC attacks.

Now what happens is he comes home, screams "Patty Hearst" syndrome, gets the bleeding hearts on his side, winds up getting a slap on the wrist and disappears from national thought. He won't do 3yrs.

....uhhm, thats not to say some very irked patriotic psycho won't do the guy lol. THATs what I beleive sweet little johnny has to worry about.

Does anyone besides me see pix of this clown and want to knock his teeth out?

Tumor

kbman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2001, 03:40:00 AM »

Nim,
Go do some reading in the law library.Treason carries an extremely high burden of proof, requiring at least 2 eyewitnesses to a treasonous act or a confession,neither of which is likely in this case.I am NOT defending him but I highly doubt that treason will be either charged or successfully prosecuted against him.There are numerous other charges more likely,most of which do NOT carry the death penalty as it turns out. We shall see.

kbman