Author Topic: Chases High (Read 5396 times)

mars01 · « **Reply #105 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:33:06 PM »

Bottom line is the safety flyers are very boring to run into and fight. They are timid at best and can rarely match skill if they fall off their perch and get slow. Once they do all they have left in their bag of tricks is running.

Last night was a perfect example. I upped at a field where I saw two red cons and low and behold the two red cons were "Major Nelson" typhoons.

Unfortunately I forgot to change planes so I was in a Seafire, I decided, since I was up I would give some chase. So to make a long boring story short. The typhs made some week BnZ, long extension passes, I killed one and pinged up the other so he ran. Boy what fun.

If your style is the safety dance, that is your choice, but don't believe for a second that there is much skill or greatness in flying safe.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #106 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:34:29 PM »

Ah, I didn't mean run away or extend 5k.

All I need is 1k extention if neccessary.

No more sad news Zazen.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #107 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:36:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.

[/b]

This is a complete non-issue. Even if you take the Typhoon above its optimal speed altitude, you can always dive down to it in a hurry. A Tiffie at 12k can dive away from just about anything.

Quote

Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor. Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph. The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.

[/b]

Slow speed acceleration in the Typhoon is extraordinary. This allows a capable pilot to yank hard for an instant turn, then let go for a beat, allow it to accelerate again, then yank again. Thus if the Typhoon can force the Spit below 200mph, he can easily accelerate away. But then I expect you already knew this.

Quote

Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn. But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.

[/b]

Not an issue.

Quote

Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it. Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.

[/b]

Better check that connection if you can't get easy kills with four 20mm cannons. Spits have 20mm Hispanos, but they have half as many. Thus the Tiffie should be twice as lethal as any Spit model and equal to the F4U-1C, the premier vulch machine.

You can argue about the Tiffie's weaknesses until you're blue in the face, but the only real weakness the Tiffie suffers is a poor roll rate that hampers it in scissoring fights. It is otherwise one of the finest fighters in the entire game if flown to its strengths. How do I know? Well, gee, I only flew the thing exclusively for over a year way back when. You'd think I learned a thing or two about it in that time.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Sandman · « **Reply #108 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:37:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
If someone is going to disengage/run, thats just what they are going to do, regardless of the proximity of a nearby base. Running to a closer base or a further base is just ... running ... period.

Longer distances between bases contributes/feeds the horde. Back in the "Pizza" days, once a small horde started, it grew quite fast due to the fact that the distance between the bases did not allow an "intradiction" group to get up and get to the base under "vulch" fast enough to possibly stop the capture, nor would this distance allow a reversal of capture before the horde moved onto the next target. As fields were captured, they horde grew bigger and mowed down everything in its path.

Maps like FesterMA, with fields closer together, allows an end-around on the horde and fields can be recaptured if the horde DOESN'T leave some protection behind ... which they rarely do. Hence, even tho they still move as a horde, they really don't contribute much to the overall resetting of a map ... their actions a nullified.

I disagree. Escaping to a friendly base is easier if it's closer, IMHO.

Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.

Before AH, when we flew WB, it seems that the bases were much further apart. I'm not sure if they actually were or maybe it was just the lack of an onboard AWACS radar that made the distances seem longer.

SlapShot · « **Reply #109 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:40:05 PM »

Here is your earlier post ...

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Shane, the la7 for you is a crutch.

I'm not going to tell people how to fly. But I will say this. If you land kills in any spitfire, la7, niki or hurri, and still think you are some "great pilot" at this game, then you have problems.

Go ahead, get kills in those plane, do whatever you need to to compete with other pilots at different skill levels, just don't think for a second that you are a great pilot in AH.

Here is your latest post ...

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Great top speed of a typhoon is only "great" below 5k, otherwise, many other planes have a higher top speed. Only other non perked planes faster than a typhoon are the La7, 190D9.. And if you are out of wep, than the pony and 1 other plane are faster on the deck. Most planes get faster as they increase altitude so many planes are faster than the typhoon above 5k.

Acceleration on a typhoon is very poor. Unless you have altitude to dive away, you are not going to out run a spitfire assuming you both started out doing 200mph. The spitfire will close in to the typhoon because it has better acceleration.

Instant turn is great if you are on the guys six and want to go for the lead shot in a turn. But all the spitfire pilot has to do is not do a flat turn, and keep turning, in about 13 seconds the spitfire will be on the typhoon's six.

Insanely lethal guns, eh, they are powerful, but sometimes I still have to get 4 shots to kill a spitfire or at least hurt it. Besides, spits have the 20mm as well.

I repect those P38 pilots because it's a challenging plane to master. I repect those 190D9 fighters that actually fight without running away. D9 isn't exactly a turn fighter. Basically anyone who turnfights in a plane known to be a poor turnfighter. Those guys want a challenge and are getting one.
What I just said above was in defense to what was said by Leviathn.

You can be a great pilot in a spitfire, hurri, C205, La7 mossie, GREAT. Have fun. Fly anything you want. REread my earlier post. And for the spitfire pilots that were upset in this thread. I didn't mean to get you upset.

If I flew a spitfire vs spitfire against some of you here, I'd probably lose in the first turn. I'm just used to fighting without outturning my enemy.

Can you say ... BACK-PEDDLE !!!

I am relieved to know now, because I use to fly the P-38 quite a bit and got fairly proficient in it, that I can still fly my Spitfire (my favorite plane) and still feel MANLY !!!! and someday, maybe, be known as a "great pilot".

SlapShot · « **Reply #110 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:55:47 PM »

I disagree. Escaping to a friendly base is easier if it's closer, IMHO.

easier ? ... What the heck does that have to do with it ... they are running cause they can't or are afraid to fight ... period ... distance to the base makes no difference ... a grapefruit will always run without consideration as to base proximity.

Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.

Maybe you had wax in your ears back then. The whines were as loud if not louder ... hence ... FesterMA, OZKansas.

Before AH, when we flew WB, it seems that the bases were much further apart. I'm not sure if they actually were or maybe it was just the lack of an onboard AWACS radar that made the distances seem longer.

Never flew WB.

Morpheus · « **Reply #111 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:56:29 PM »

Quote

Also... during the pizza days, it seems to me that the horde whines weren't nearly as shrill as they are today. Something has changed.

Yeah, actually something did change. The game.

The MA general population consists of mostly new playrs. Back when we had Pizza I can remember seeing a new player maybe once a week. Now I see one or two every night that I will log in. Im also seeing alot of old players leave. I can think of a dozen or so old players right off the top of my head who called it quits because of what direction the game was headed in. They didnt like it, so the left. So what you have is out with the old in with the new. Only now you dont have the old teaching the new. You have the new teaching the newer. And the new is teaching the newer to run when in trouble or even when he feels he is in trouble, run.

SO the key for them is to stick together, in big, massive hordes. And that's why the hordes are so bad today. And so much bigger than they were in AH1 when we had the pizza map.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #112 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:57:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01

If your style is the safety dance, that is your choice, but don't believe for a second that there is much skill or greatness in flying safe.

I don't play a game to be 'great' at anyone else's game just mine. I play to have 'fun'. Flying to survive is 'fun' to some including myself. Being a 'great' Spit jockey is a totally different game than being a great Typhoon driver which is different from being a great 38 driver etc. That is what makes this game so interesting, especially to people who fly multiple types of planes. There's about 90 million ways to skin a cat in air combat and each plane is good at some of those but not all of them. In this game there are great everything's:

Great Turnfighters
Great E-Fighters
Great Marksmen
Great Cherry pickers
Great Bouncers
Great Survivalists
Great Vulchers
Great Furballers
Great Ostwind Shootists
Great Tank Drivers
Great Gunship Drivers
Great Team Players
etc. etc. etc.

To be so presumptuous as to assert that one form of 'greatness' is somehow more pure and valid than another is frankly, disgusting elitist BS. In terms of people enjoying the game, which is why the other 98% of us pay and play, being great at something, anything, or maybe even several things is reason enough to keep paying HTC our $15 a month. We're terribly sorry if what we enjoy doing and are to varying degrees 'great' at is not what you think it should be, our apologies, be sure to get in line to smooch our hairy arses.

Have A Nice Day!

Zazen

Zazen13 · « **Reply #113 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:04:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
Yeah, actually something did change. The game.

The MA general population consists of mostly new playrs. Back when we had Pizza I can remember seeing a new player maybe once a week. Now I see one or two every night that I will log in. Im also seeing alot of old players leave. I can think of a dozen or so old players right off the top of my head who called it quits because of what direction the game was headed in. They didnt like it, so the left. So what you have is out with the old in with the new. Only now you dont have the old teaching the new. You have the new teaching the newer. And the new is teaching the newer to run when in trouble or even when he feels he is in trouble, run.

SO the key for them is to stick together, in big, massive hordes. And that's why the hordes are so bad today. And so much bigger than they were in AH1 when we had the pizza map.

Care that people run from you?...fly a faster plane...It's not complicated...Nothing runs from me unless I permit it

Zazen

SlapShot · « **Reply #114 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:05:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
I have some bad news Kermit. I have been told on these boards, much to my chagrin, that unless you DO turn with the enemy, you aren't actually fighting. So, you don't fight, I'm sorry to have to break this sad news to you.

Zazen

Your absolutely right ... you are NOT fighting ... you are simply killing ... which is the bottom line.

A sniper that sits on top of a building picking guys off 1 by 1 from 300-400 yards that are involved in a gun battle in the streets below ... is he is involved in the "fight" ? ... nope ... he is simply killing.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #115 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:07:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Your absolutely right ... you are NOT fighting ... you are simply killing ... which is the bottom line.

A sniper that sits on top of a building picking guys off 1 by 1 from 300-400 yards that are involved in a gun battle in the streets below ... is he is involved in the "fight" ? ... nope ... he is simply killing.

I have a good friend who was a Sniper in Viet Nam, he is going to be sad when I tell him he was not actually 'fighting' for his country.

Zazen

Morpheus · « **Reply #116 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:13:38 PM »

A family friend of ours was over in afghanistan who is a sniper and used the 50cal. He would agree and basicly said the same thing slapshot just said.

Of course he is fighting for his country you dumb sob. But he is not fighting hand to hand (aka dog fighting).

God you are just as dumb as they get.

"Watching at a man eating his breakfast from 1000 yards out just before he is blown in half is alot different than looking a man right in his eyes as he's shooting back at you. " Those were his exact words.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #117 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:16:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus

God you are just as dumb as they get.

Yup, I'm dumb as a doorknob!

Zazen

Zazen13 · « **Reply #118 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:20:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
But he is not fighting hand to hand (aka dog fighting).

So, only turnfighters can dogfight, E fighters who use energy management, speed and marksmanship cannot by definition dogfight according to you?
There's going to be alot of P51, F4U, F6F, P47 and Fw190 pilots that are going to be very sad they lied in their after action reports during WW2 saying they were in a dogfight with Spits, Zekes, Ki's, 109s when they actually weren't according to your narrow definition.

Zazen

SlapShot · « **Reply #119 on:** November 30, 2005, 02:22:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zazen13
I have a good friend who was a Sniper in Viet Nam, he is going to be sad when I tell him he was not actually 'fighting' for his country.

Zazen

Oh ... you made me feel bad ... NOT ... at times you can be very intelligent and at times you can be very stupid. In this instance ... you were very stupid.

I too have many friends that were in Nam and they would understand the context in which I posted ... and not have a problem with it. Twist it any way you like.