Author Topic: Bombs/rockets vs GV's (Read 4196 times)

Bodhi · « **Reply #30 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:34:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Now the bomb exploding far enough away that the shockwave hits the tank. The shockwave does not effect the inside of the tank. It will pass around it like a rock. It will be effected but not in the way people are suggesting.

Are you even thinking about what you just posted? Have you EVER read any first hand accounts of what a shock wave does to a tank and more importantly it's crew?

I suggest you do, and you will quickly get rid of this notion that a shock wave passes "around a tank like a rock"!

I know you LTAR guys like GV's, but you need a dose of reality.

Octavius · « **Reply #31 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:35:48 AM »

If the medium surrounding a sealed container is violently compressed, the contents inside will also see some degree of compression (depending on the rigidity of the container). If the container (tank structure) is able to displace and decrease the total volume, the pressure will increase.

We normally have ~15psi in normal conditions (reading this post near sea level). Rapidly expanding gas of the bomb blast increases that pressure to nearly 700 tons per square inch.

A bomb blast is pretty ****in violent, and that kind of pressure will initially compress and collapse lungs and nasal cavities. A moment later these areas are decompressed and are filled with a large volume of blood. Pulmonary vessels connecting the lungs to the heart are sheared off. You're gonna be O2 starved pretty fast, not to mention your sinuses have already imploded. Think of being plunged a thousand feet under water and back out almost instantaneously.

A tank is not airtight, and no matter now strong a metal the tank has, it will flex and twist when exposed to forces that accompany typical WWII era bombs. At the very least, the crew will be deaf and pretty shook up. Maybe HT can mute the sounds ingame for tankers exposed to this wonderful experience.

Larry · « **Reply #32 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:38:25 AM »

Was watching a show about vietnam a few months ago and a pilot said that a 750lber was more then enough to flip or distroy the NV tanks. Now lets back that up about 25 years a 500 lber landing about 50ft away from a pnzr or tiger should flip it or at least trck it if not kill it.

MadSquirrel · « **Reply #33 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:41:13 AM »

Bodhi, one thing about the burning fuel tanks. The strafing aircraft didn't stick around, they hit and moved on. I would be willing to bet that the crews didn't just sit there. If not under direct fire, they probably put the fires out. And if they had effective supplies like we have in AHII, one box would create a brand new Tiger for them with fuel.

But back to the theme of the post:

"Does anybody out there have any information that can support the effectiveness of bombs and rockets on tanks?"

LTARsqrl

Morpheus · « **Reply #34 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:42:47 AM »

Hvar Rocket impact from P47

What a direct hit to a panther looks like from a 1000 lb bomb.

Proxi blast estemated 50 yards

Proxi blast to tiger 1000 lb bomb.

Near direct hit with 500 lb bomb.

Go ahead and tell me that ANY one of these crews in those tanks could hop out, over turn/fix/repair their tank and continue an assult.

I will go ahead and call you insane.

Bodhi · « **Reply #35 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:48:35 AM »

2nd picture down was not a Panther, but was instead late model Stug with the 75mm long barrel.

Not to be picky, but the egg woulda done the same thing to a Panther.

I will bring a "few"

(Morph has seen the collection) books to work tomorrow showing some egg / rocket results on tanks. If I have time I will scan the pics in and post them.

Bodhi · « **Reply #36 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:50:09 AM »

Ohh, and did you notice the torsion bars sheared off on that upside down Tiger? Thats an easy fix.... LMFAO....

MadSquirrel · « **Reply #37 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:50:09 AM »

Morpheus

Direct hit OK, flipped crew could survive. Fix? Not a problem with uber AHII supplie Box.

Back to Balsurs question:
"Does anybody out there have any information that can support the effectiveness of bombs and rockets on tanks?"

Documented information to support there effectiveness. Pictures show damage to vehicles. Now lets see the documentation of what was dropped, how many were dropped, the vehicles condition before and after the drop, the crews condition before and after the drop. BTW, nice pictures, you got a link for them? I would be interested in checking into the info you provided a bit further.

Thanks

LTARsqrl

Morpheus · « **Reply #38 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:52:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MadSquirrel

Now the bomb exploding far enough away that the shockwave hits the tank. The shockwave does not effect the inside of the tank. It will pass around it like a rock. It will be effected but not in the way people are suggesting.

lol.

Morpheus · « **Reply #39 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:53:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
Ohh, and did you notice the torsion bars sheared off on that upside down Tiger? Thats an easy fix.... LMFAO....

shut up Mr I sat in an original tiger.

im going to steal your tiger book when you arent looking. That would look purdy sitting on my shelf.

MadSquirrel · « **Reply #40 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:55:24 AM »

Don't laugh, explain.

You may have all the answers. I don't. I am trying to understand this myself.

LTARsqrl

Morpheus · « **Reply #41 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:06:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Morpheus

Back to Balsurs question:
"Does anybody out there have any information that can support the effectiveness of bombs and rockets on tanks?"

Documented information to support there effectiveness. Pictures show damage to vehicles. Now lets see the documentation of what was dropped, how many were dropped, the vehicles condition before and after the drop, the crews condition before and after the drop. BTW, nice pictures, you got a link for them? I would be interested in checking into the info you provided a bit further.

Thanks

LTARsqrl

Why do people always want everyone else to do their homework for them?

One word. Google.

Look man, I found you pictures, told you what inflicted the damage. If you dont like it, or dont beleive me, that's too dam bad. I honestly dont care. But when I see some dork saying that a bomb dropped near a tank, not on, but near a tank did nothing to the tank OR the crew inside it, it just irks me... Stupidity irks me. And I have no self control when it comes to keeping my mouth shut and not telling them how stupid they really sound.

Quote
Direct hit OK, flipped crew could survive. Fix? Not a problem with uber AHII supplie Box.

Do you have any idea of the forces inficted on not only the tank, but to the crew inside? Again, better go do your homework.

On a different note... I think Tanks in Aces High are a freakin joke. For one they do-not-belong in this game. AT ALL. Its a flight sim. Not a road terd sim. Second, I've been straffed too many times by a spit5 and had my turret taken out in a Panzer from one pass to want to deal with that frustration on a regular basis. GV's are frustrating. Fighters are not. I can shoot a wing on a plane and it falls off. I can sit in a Panzer and shoot another panzer 8 times, he will turn around and shoot me once and blow me to hell. Where do I find these depleted uranium sabots that others have their panzers armed with?

And btw, we are talking real life. Not AH send out a box'o supplies and everything is peachy. IRL 1000 lb bomb dropped close enough to flip a tank, would cause the crew to bleed from every orifice on their person if they werent turned into hamburger from shrapnel that was flying from within the tank. They would not be running around fixing tanks after that. They would most likely crawl into a ditch and die. If they could even crawl to begin with.

BALSUR · « **Reply #42 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:11:15 AM »

ok, a couple of things to address here.
1st. Micheal Wittman's tiger was surrounded by allied tanks and destroyed. At first , it was thought that Typhoons destroyed the tanks with rockets. That was later negated.

2nd, When I started this thread I asked if anyone had any information to support the bombs/rockets vs Heavy German armor. The reason I asked was I can only find stuff that supports the fact that bombs/rockets didn't have an impact on destroying German armor. I am sorry but personal experiences in AH1, WW2OL, IL2 don't carry much weight. I've posted books to read and web searched but I guess noone cares. They perfer what they think and what they watch on tv. Movies dont get it right either.

3rd, As for the concusion debate going on. Since hopefully none of us has been in a tank with ordenance dropped on we'll only have to believe what the people who have lived through say. The statements I have read describes tiger crews surviving bombardment. Karnak has stated above that he has read this and concurs with its accuracy so, why the opposition? Find a study that says differant.

BALSUR · « **Reply #43 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:18:11 AM »

Nice pictures Morph, you got a link, a search site or something.

Mr No Name · « **Reply #44 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:24:33 AM »

Exactly morpheus... Another thing.... how is it GVs can be resupplied and repaired in a mission but an aircraft carrier or fleet cannot be??? Crews always had shipfitters and people capable of fixing nearly anything that didnt sink it outright... (Take the case of the USS Franklin!)

I am not trying to hijack the thread... but resupplying GVs with anything more than ammo/fuel shouldnt be allowed (If even that!). I lost a 262 the other day, it would have been mighty nice to have a "power up" button then!