Author Topic: Justifying flying for LW  (Read 2762 times)

Offline StSanta

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Justifying flying for LW
« on: January 19, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »
Another thread got me thinking a bit. Jochen brought up a valid point when I was jokingly referring to 9./JG 54 members as the elite, as being the best überhumans we can be.

Of course this has some negative connotations and refers (in)directly to the HolocaustA tasteless joke but then again I am not known for having good taste.

At any rate; how can one justify flying for the LW; a branch of the German armed forces that with its brutal effiency helped the conquest of several nations and indirectly assisted in the Holocaust? Can one justify it at all?

I can understand the bad taste most quite rightfully get when they hear the word Luftwaffe - it sounds like a synonym to "nazi" even though it is not - the German air force today is still known as the Luftwaffe. So how does one justify flying for these pirates of the sky?

Separating the armed force from the political ideology is step one. Initially, the Wehrmacht was just the same as the US armed forces are today - a non political state run institution put in place to do the biddings of its political masters. Much like when the American politicians order American pilots to enforce no fly zones, the German politicians ordered the LW to strike various targets. Later in the war, the Wehrmacht became politized - mostly with the introduction of the Waffen SS. As far as I know, there were no Waffen SS jagdgeschwaders.

Step two is looking at the machines - I dare say that most playing AH are a rare breed with a fascination for prop planes and personal favourite aircraft. how does one pick a favourite aircraft? For me, it is not a logical choice -  I choose instinctively. Focke-Wulfs are appealing because of their shark like appareance, neatly combining beatuy with a sense of raw power. 109's are ugly but radiate a brutality that overcomes the aestethical and makes ya either love or hate them.

Thirdly, there are the men of the LW - Galland, Marseilles, "Bubi" Hartmann. Many of which are the epithomy of what we see as fighter aces - Galland with his film star looks, own the world attitude and great skills, Hartmann with his unbelievable record. Despite the regime they worked for, it is hard not to admire their achievements. Isolated from the political background, it's really something.

There also is the Bad Guy Appeal - in the Star Wars universe, I always side with Darth Vader and his gang. Tie fighters are way sexier than X-Wings. There are so many heroes out there that being an anti hero is very rewarding. Working for the dark side, being Satan compatriot - I don't know why, but one word describes it for me - "neato". If you cannot be loved and admired, make sure you're hated and feared.

The initial effectiveness of the LW and all the innovations it brought to the field of aviation is another thing.

Lastly, there is the underdog appeal. Late in the war, always outnumbered, *defending the civilian population from the murderous bombs of the Brits and (to a much lesser extent) the Americans. Flying planes that are good but not quite as good as the allied counterparts.

But, let's be honest. Just the slightest thought about the Holocaust, the killing of Russians and everything and all of these reasons are wiped out.

So what do we do? We call ourselves warriors, instruments to be used by politicians, servants of the state. We will do what we're told as long as the order is not illegal. i have yet to hear about an instance where LW units were used to exterminate Jews for instance.

The above reasons is why I fly LW - I do not fly it because I'm a racist or a nazi. I find  those things utterly disgusting. Yet it is important to remember that not all LW pilots were nazi's. It's my personal belief that anyone hearing about or witnessing the results of the British bomb raids on civilian populations would be enraged and, if capable, get up into a plane to try to stop it.

But, I am a LW pilot. As such, i try to live up to the stereotypes. My hair is blonde, cut very short. I have a bottle of schnaps in my pocket and I fight wearing a monocle. My arrogance is only rivalled by my extreme views that LW pilots are, in every way, superior to their allied counterparts. I'm elitist and proud of it, and have a "Von" between my surname and my last name.

I am Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen, old school WWI style aviator, fighting for the *LW*, not for the nazi's. I'm too advanced and civilized to kick bellybutton and take names, so I "eliminate schweinhunde und yell spheetfeure!" instead.

Now, US sons of peasants, cow milkers and Brit scum of the earth, go buy boots; soon I am airbone and you need something to shake in.

 

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht

Offline -duma-

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Justifying flying for LW
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2001, 05:31:00 PM »
Dresden is perhaps the most obvious point. When looking at WWII it'd be too easy to take sides and say 'these guys were evil', I think everyone here's matured beyond that. Badging every Luftwaffe pilot as evil and a disgrace would be missing the point to say the least. Can't say I've ever been keen on the idea of swastikas in games, for this very reason - even if it's historical it's not what I want to be thinking about when I see friends flying luftwaffe a/c.

Anyway, I've heard of the bad guy appeal of flying for the LW. What can I say, I'm a good guy through and through  
Underdog appeal? Bah; been there done that. I don't care about the heroes with huge lists of kills; it's every poor sap at low level in his Mosquito, Beaufighter or Typhoon I admire. Now it's time to push the blighters back, rocket their Panzers to hell, and back in time for tea and medals  

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2001, 07:34:00 PM »
"Diplomacy.. the art of saying 'nice doggie!' while you look for a rock."

Very Diplomatic post Santa. I take it your 'rock' (joystick) still ain't there??  

The allies were responsible for more than a few reprehensible actions on the civilian populations of europe during the war.. politics and vengance aside; we do not have bloodless hands either.

However a larger truth remains even now, more than 50 years later; that the images of evil inspired by the nazi regime stir a bitter and angry response from members of certain ethnic and religious groups... I doubt you'll find many Jewish folks flying LW iorn in this sim, as an example.

Be that as it may.... as long as we are 'wargaming' in a WWII flight simulator, it stands to reason there will be a LW contingient. Sadly; some folks will be unable to seperate the 'clean' war from the dirty one... the airwar, per se; that of fighter vs fighter in the skies over europe was 'clean' in retrospect compared to the atrocities committed in the slave camps.

Still; when one decides to chose up sides, somewhere in the back our minds comes the question... "What ideology do I wish to support?" Does the answer to that question weigh more on your mind than the type of plane you fly?? Personal questions; yes. Answer: Insignificant across the span of history; from then to now, I think.

I read somewhere that the average LW pilot was concerned with survival; his, his family's in the cities under night attack; their survival in the factories under attack during the day. No time fer political debate in a cockpit, is there?

There was no safe place in Germany by 1944.. anywhere. So; the LW pilot, oblivious to the evil atrocities being committed by his countrymen in SS uniforms; disgusted with and distrustful of his senior leadership, all but unaware of the basic facts that his plane was built by slaves; his ammo was manufactured by slaves; his uniform tailored by slaves... UNAWARE that the very fabric of his life was a tapestry of lies and deciet, he climbed into his warbird day after day and went about the missions he was given.. "PROTECT THE FATHERLAND."

Not till it was over did most come to realise what they had nearly.. so very nearly wrought was nothing less than an abominiation upon humanity itself.

No; I do not hate the LW.. honorable men througout history have before be suborned to evil taskmasters. Rather; I pity them.. poor sods. How else can we view them? ... They were damned in victory or defeat.

So; next time you see some guy in a 190 or 109.. don't think "NAZI!!" Think "CHUMP"

<S!>

Hang

 

 

 

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Nath-BDP

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Justifying flying for LW
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2001, 07:55:00 PM »
Post-1942, German soldiers in World War II no longer fought for the Fatherland or The Third Reich--they fought against fear and because they HAD to.  If you didn't fight then you were assigned to a penal battalion or shot on the spot, this is why the German army was the most elite army in the world man-for-man, severe discapline and punishment.  

For the Luftwaffe it was protecting their comrades on the ground who they knew had the worst time.

I fly LW because I think those aircraft are the most beautifull in the game and in real life, they all were amazing aircraft and in sims are a challenge to fly--I cannot say the same for other aircraft except for perhaps the P38.

And in these discussions please do not forget Stalin and what things the Red Army and NKVD did.

P.S. Hartmann was waay cooler and secksier than Galland! ;p Galland was a punk that had to fly jets, Hartmann was offered this opportunity to join JG 7 but he decided to stay with the 109 on the Eastern front.

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Nath_____
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
 

A captured Bolshevik pilot once stated, "In battle, the fighters with the green hearts are generally in the minority. But when they're there, things realy heat up. They're all aces!"

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 01-19-2001).]

funked

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Justifying flying for LW
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2001, 08:26:00 PM »
You guys don't need to justify anything.  It's a game.  As a Spitfire pilot, I'm glad we have people flying 109s and 190s for me to shoot down.    

<S>

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FunkedUp, Officer Commanding, 308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Northolt Wing (1st Polish Fighter Wing)

"We hadn't wanted this bloody awful war that the Huns seemed to think so glorious.  We had been forced to fight.  And now that we are fighting, we thought, we'll teach you rotten Huns how to fight.  We'll shoot your pissy little fighters out of the sky, we'll rip your dirty great bombers to shreds, we'll make you wish to Christ you'd never heard of the aeroplane!"

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-19-2001).]

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2001, 08:37:00 PM »
Luftwaffe planes are so fun when those are usually only skill involved planes in flight sims  

I like tough to fight in planes.. (I want P-40! I liked it so much in WB and I got an invitation to Flying Tigers squadron  )

I get bored in a game that has no challenge.. thats why I usually end up into LW planes, which could be equally modelled with their allied counterparts  

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2001, 09:01:00 PM »
I choose LW bexcuause they happen to be he planes i like the look of and i like the german soldier stereotype of heel clicking big heads  
Ive always liked the german equipment etc since i was a kid and didnt know the true nature of WW2.Now ive read extensively about it and the holocaust horrifies me.Lets not forget what was done to the polish people russians english french etc.
But this is a simulation and a game and i come here to fly planes.politics just doesnt come into it.I look at the equiptment and choose for looks etc and i just happen to like the german stuff.This was decided in my childhood not on some political belief  
hell i liked shermans tigers panthers M3 lees
hated russian stuff (ugly) liked american jeeps,japanese zeros and british matilda trucks!  
does this mean im a democratic-nazi-freedom-loving-anti-communist-american-pie-eating-kamakazi-tea drinker?
wow thats me! we could be onto something here!  

hazed

Hans

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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2001, 10:01:00 PM »
Ah, for Pete's sake.

Its just a game.  There are no politics here.

Hans.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2001, 01:14:00 AM »
dammit i just wanna fly.........  

plz send grun a decent computer (read: operating)

oh yea i like 109 cuz i think its the most elegant lookin plane, spit cant hold a candle to 109F/G2 in simple purity of line plus LW pilots seem more interesting than most of the allied guys, tho i really cant say why

Offline Ozark

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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2001, 01:24:00 AM »
It's your $30 U.S. dollars.....You don't have to justify anything.

3 days ago I bought a FW190 model...What does that mean to me...hey, cool airplane...that's it.  


Offline Torque

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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2001, 02:11:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime:
[B

So; next time you see some guy in a 190 or 109.. don't think "NAZI!!" Think "CHUMP"

<S!>

Hang

[/B]

LOL Hang Chumps in chutes with Lederhosen on now that's funny

Offline Voss

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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2001, 02:25:00 AM »
"Bubi" flew for the "Luftwaffe" after the war (and many years in Russian camps). So, I don't think that "LW" has the same connotation you imply. Now, if you start waving the nazi symbol, well...

You fly LW steel so that my men, in their American Steel (and aluminum) P-51's, have something to shoot down!  

Voss 13th T.A.S.

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 01-20-2001).]

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2001, 02:45:00 AM »
Santa, I believe Most of the poeple here, will already know that (LW & Nazi) have nothing to do here. Poeple who are in LW Squads are in LW squad...bacause they like LW planes...

There will of course be schmucks that overcome this and other schmucks that won't understand it...

So, I ask you, who cares about schmucks ?  

Saw
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2001, 03:09:00 AM »
The Schmucks?? Why; they're in line with the Chumps.  

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline StSanta

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Justifying flying for LW
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2001, 05:11:00 AM »
Saw et all

It comes a time when the insinuations just get to you. And there are times when there are no insinuations but direct accusations, and that from fellow LW pilots.

So I explain myself. After I've done that, if they're incapable of understanding, the problem truly is theirs, not mine  .

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht