Congress did not see same Intel

[Yeager]

Was the intel being shown to congress different than what the prez saw?

It would make sense that the president sees a more thorough classified version of the intel but I doubt there was any concerted effort to mislead congress with wrong intel or puposefully contradicting intel.

Seems like the left wing of american politics is gasping again...a single day after the elections in iraq went off amazingly well, all we here about is bush spying on honest law abiding american citizens and congress only being shown the comic books from the CIA during the lead up to the iraq campaign.

something just aint right lucy.....

[Gunslinger]

anyone else notice how all this news seems to surface during "low time" or during "Iraqi elections"?

[Jackal1]

You mean that Congress was not supplied every single detail of the intel on this? The pure friggen horror.
If congress had been supplied with every single detail, just think..........They could have still been debating this and not making a decison. By now they could have gave theirself 3 or 4 more raises while they were debating.
That`s why we have a prez. To make decisions. Someone has to get off their butt and actualy DO something.

[lazs2]

I don't think that anyone here thought that the old ladies in congress got all the daily briefings that the pres got.

Most here belive that they got the high points and essentialy the same intel.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I dunt play that 'blame game'.  It dunt solve anything.

If "dunt" is an abbreviation of "doesn't", how would you abbreviate "couldn't"?

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't think that anyone here thought that the old ladies in congress got all the daily briefings that the pres got.

Most here belive that they got the high points and essentialy the same intel.

lazs

I dont know that it matters.  The intel that was crucial in whipping up public support for the war was false.   Saddam was not a threat to the USA.  The question is, was it intentionally false.  Either way, the mistake was made and heads should roll.  Dem or publicans.  This is a massive catastrophe for the financial health of the US.  We are borrowing masive sums of money from foreign countries to finance this war.  We have to pay that back, with interest.   You and me.  I would rather see my money put into schools, roads, tax breaks for the middle class,  CPR for the social security system,  etc.  Things that help all of our standard of living by creating good paying jobs.  I dont want see my tax money going straight into the pockets of a wealthy saudi oil shiek with a loan shark business.  We havnt even started the 'rebuilding' of Iraq yet.  Hows that grab ya, the republicans eliminate social programs for the US but are about to embark on the most costly social program of all for little Iraqi children.   Kind and gentle children.   Thats what we get for letting Haliburton run the country.  The only thing saving my sanity is the 40,000 I made off of the HAL stock in the last 2 years.  If ya cant beat em, join em.  

[Seagoon]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Several post-invasion inquiries have found that U.S. intelligence agencies produced for the White House and Congress seriously flawed assessments on Iraq.

Hmmm White House, AND Congress.

So. they both got flawed intel.

How does that equate into Bush Lieing?

Well if Bush got more flawed intel than congress, then presumably he would be more convinced that the Iraqis had the weapons of mass destruction that his predecessor's administration was also convinced they had. We seem to be missing the point that everyone agrees that ALL the intel that was being received and passed on by every intel outfit said "WMDs exist in Iraq" (oh that is with the possible exception of what Joe Wilson was able to find at the Gawaeye hotel bar).

Silat, is it your contention that Bush got secret never before seen or released intel that congress didn't have that indicated that Iraq did not have the level of WMDs that everyone thought they had? If that's the case, did Clinton have access to this super secret intel as well? If so, where did the intel Clinton didn't have access to come from? Republican pollsters?

[Mini D]

Congress received as much intel as they wanted at the time. That is a pathetic article that highlights how important deniability is in congress.

Or... are we to believe that the idiot GWBjr and his idiot staff managed to masterfully dupe congress into going to war? It's amazing how clever and stupid he can be at the same time.

How about this scenario:

America had just been the victim of what many considered to be an act of war. Going into Afghanistan was not enough of a statement as to our intent... something more was needed and Sadaam had made himself a more than ideal target over the last 15 years. A minimal excuse was needed. WMDs became the hot item of the day and everyone hopped on the boat and voted in the war.

Here's the catch: Everyone knew the value of the WMD data. Erm... everyone that had an IQ over 70 that is. Everyone knew it was more of an excuse than a reason. Everyone also knew that more of a statement was needed and decided to take something AT FACE VALUE BEFORE VOTING TO GO TO WAR. This wasn't a duping... it was a massive "look the other way and vote what  you think people want you to vote" scenario.

Jeez... I almost think people were so busy arguing that they weren't really paying attention to what was going on.

You can sit back and argue philosophy all you want, but this lame bellybutton attempt to make it look as if one party were more "guilty" than the other is simply stupid. It's the same old crowd doing the same old thing much to the detriment of this forum.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Jackal1
You mean that Congress was not supplied every single detail of the intel on this? The pure friggen horror.
If congress had been supplied with every single detail, just think..........They could have still been debating this and not making a decison. By now they could have gave theirself 3 or 4 more raises while they were debating.
That`s why we have a prez. To make decisions. Someone has to get off their butt and actualy DO something.

Iraq wasn't the threat that it was presented to be. A little more debating wouldn't have hurt at all.

[Silat]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LMAO they act like this is somehow new news.

I cant even count the amount of times I've heard that congress doesnt get the same intel  the president does its been said so many times already.

And they shouldnt.

the more people that know all the intel the higher the probability is that somen is going ot run their mouth and reveal classified information.

If your going to give congress the exact same intel the Pres gets you might as well publish it in the NY Times

You are missing the point.
The pres and his supporters here and elsewhere, cabinet etc have been saying that congress saw the exact same intel he did when deciding to go to war...
They have been saying this as an excuse for their many mistakes.

[Silat]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
in essence they were. What they werent getting was every single scrap of information
Just a smaller and more condenced version of it The overall intel albeit faulty was the same

Pres got intel that was faulty.
congress got a smaller version of the same faulty intel.

Again. I havent seen anything tht would indicate that congress would have acted any differently even if they had the same exact intel.

In hindsight the intel at the time was faulty at all levels Both the intel that the white house was given and the intel congress was given.

Dred let me help you out here.
Congress was getting a CHERRY PICKED version that left out any details that didnt go along with the admins opinion. That is lying in my book.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
anyone else notice how all this news seems to surface during "low time" or during "Iraqi elections"?

GUns this has been news for years now. Many have been saying that the Pres and his admin cherry picked the info that was giving to them. There has been a fight for the pres briefings for sometime now.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Jackal1
You mean that Congress was not supplied every single detail of the intel on this? The pure friggen horror.
If congress had been supplied with every single detail, just think..........They could have still been debating this and not making a decison. By now they could have gave theirself 3 or 4 more raises while they were debating.
That`s why we have a prez. To make decisions. Someone has to get off their butt and actualy DO something.

The horror of an actual debate on such an insignificant issue as going to war..........

[Holden McGroin]

So did the Senate Select Committee lie or were they just incompetant?

In carrying out this purpose, the Select Committee on Intelligence shall make every effort to assure that the appropriate departments and agencies of the United States provide informed and timely intelligence necessary for the executive and legislative branches to make sound decisions affecting the security and vital interests of the Nation.    

[Silat]

Originally posted by Mini D
Congress received as much intel as they wanted at the time. That is a pathetic article that highlights how important deniability is in congress.

Or... are we to believe that the idiot GWBjr and his idiot staff managed to masterfully dupe congress into going to war? It's amazing how clever and stupid he can be at the same time.

How about this scenario:

America had just been the victim of what many considered to be an act of war. Going into Afghanistan was not enough of a statement as to our intent... something more was needed and Sadaam had made himself a more than ideal target over the last 15 years. A minimal excuse was needed. WMDs became the hot item of the day and everyone hopped on the boat and voted in the war.

Here's the catch: Everyone knew the value of the WMD data. Erm... everyone that had an IQ over 70 that is. Everyone knew it was more of an excuse than a reason. Everyone also knew that more of a statement was needed and decided to take something AT FACE VALUE BEFORE VOTING TO GO TO WAR. This wasn't a duping... it was a massive "look the other way and vote what  you think people want you to vote" scenario.

Jeez... I almost think people were so busy arguing that they weren't really paying attention to what was going on.

You can sit back and argue philosophy all you want, but this lame bellybutton attempt to make it look as if one party were more "guilty" than the other is simply stupid. It's the same old crowd doing the same old thing much to the detriment of this forum.

Wrong... Congress does not get the same intel. The pres and his admin cherry picked what they wanted. Not listening when being told that the alum tubes were not for weapons, no yellow cake etc..