No.2 may be among the dead

[Boroda]

Originally posted by RAIDER14
If the Cold War turned hot

Russia would look like this


Get the Point:aok

I always enjoy manifestations of alternative mental development, thanks.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by LePaul
Looks like you have a solid case of dimentia!

case of what? solid? i have some solid fiber suit-cases in my dark room, how did you know?

Originally posted by LePaul
"history is on your side" ?  So tell me, what did Afghanistan do to the USSR to deserve an invasion?  The Taliban attacked us...what's your story?

Invasion? Sorry, "invasion" was what your country did in Iraq. USSR sent troops to help legitimate Afghani government.

Taliban attacked US!? Sorry, did you study geography in elementary school? Taliban attacked Commonwealth countries, and Russian border-guards fought them since mid-90s, tell me if you'll find where US and Afghanistan have common borders. If you'll find such a place - I think you deserve a Nobel prize in geography.

Originally posted by LePaul
Expected nonsense?  Oh Im sorry, does that mean my facts dont fit your delusions?

Your facts? Did I miss something? So far your hallucinations are based on Rambo-III and other idiotic movies for brain-dead.

Originally posted by LePaul
The USSR got spanked hard and ran with its tail between its legs.  Then, not long after, the USSR crumbled.

Spanked? Tail? Good description of US in Vietnam.

JFYI: 40th army effectively performed it's combat tasks. It was withdrawn because of a political decision. The result was a total disaster for Afghanistan.

Originally posted by LePaul
Now yo go spin that for a few hours and reply.  I certainly appreciate the comical responses.  You, my friend, are our new Baghdad Bob.  "No no, Russian won!"  LOL

USSR didn't "win" but it didn't lose too. We simply withdrew. It wasn't a result of military defeat in any way. I hope you are able to understand it, it's easy if you try.

[RAIDER14]

http://www.tnl.net/when/12/27

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/727874.stm

http://www.afghan-web.com/history/articles/ussr.html

http://www.marxist.com/Asia/tgrant_on_afghan1980.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1015/p13s1-wosc.html


So Russia did withdraw becuase they loseing

[*NDM*JohnnyX]

I think our withdraw from Vietnam was political too. They never attacked American soil, we invaded then we left. We were propping up *ahem* supporting a legitimate government. If that's what you are claiming happened  in your incursion in Afghanistan, then we are even.

And since you want to bring up old defeats...Those Japanese really beat up on you in 1905 huh? We fared much better against them. You people need to have a .500 record in warfighting before you can tell anyone what they are doing wrong.

[RAIDER14]

We withdrew from Nam for political reasons ending Nam let the U.S. focus on those commies

[Harry]

No you didn't want to answer that one Boroda.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Harry
No you didn't want to answer that one Boroda.

Sorry.

USSR weapon exports policy was never to supply aggressors during the war. Iran-Iraq war ended in 1988, so Saddam had 2 years to buy that MiGs.

You can easliy make a list of criminal and aggressive regimes who bougth weapons in the US.

[Suave]

Originally posted by Boroda
USSR sent troops to help legitimate Afghani government.
 

LMAO Thanks. I needed a new sig.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Squire
The usual white noise.

In any case what I always find disconcerting is that there never seems to be good human assets in that part of the world. Its Pakistan, its a small village, and again and again the forces there have to rely on using air strikes on these kinds of targets, rather than a team to go in and see who and what is there...
.. Need some Pakistani speaking folks who can mix in there and see stuff on the ground with their own eyes, and people to back them up. Not just shooting missiles at thermal spots from a Predator drone. Reminds me of pre 9-11 methods that didnt work.

Too bad they didnt splat him, but they need more covert boots over there. Try it the old fashioned way, with a SMG and a grenade first. Or two.

It's a good thought, Squire, but very hard to implement.  These are villages with a population in the hundreds, where everyone is related to everyone else.  "Mixing in" would be almost impossible.

[Suave]

Let me extrapolate for the benefit of the reader. In 1978 the marxist president of Afghanistan was a friend to the USSR. The USSR aided him greatly in resisting the anti-communist rebels, even to the point of signing a friendship and alliance treaty. As time went by president Amin became increasingly and nearly completely dependant on soviet military aid. In 1979 the inevitible happened as Moscow siezed the opportunity.

GRU/MVD spetsnaz with soviet airborne troops providing security executed an attack planned by Department Eight on Anim's presidential palace for the purpose of liquidating the occupants. The commander of the spetsnaz element Col. Boyarinov, commander of the KGB sabotage school at Balashinka, gave orders to the soviet airborne troops to shoot anyone who tries to leave the palace. The presidents bodyguards fought very well and the spetsnaz became bogged down and ran low on ammunition. Col. Boyarinov went outside to get help from the airborne troopers but instead was shot by them as he was exiting the palace.

The only occupant of the palace who was not killed was the cook, who was a KGB operative.

The USSR's rationale for the bloodbath? President Amin was a CIA agent.

Of course I'm sure the comisar knows of an alternate history.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Suave

GRU/MVD spetsnaz with soviet airborne troops providing security executed an attack planned by Department Eight on Anim's presidential palace for the purpose of liquidating the occupants. The commander of the spetsnaz element Col. Boyarinov, commander of the KGB sabotage school at Balashinka, gave orders to the soviet airborne troops to shoot anyone who tries to leave the palace. The presidents bodyguards fought very well and the spetsnaz became bogged down and ran low on ammunition. Col. Boyarinov went outside to get help from the airborne troopers but instead was shot by them as he was exiting the palace.

What did you smoke and where I can get the same?

The storm operation was made by Kaskad and Zenith groups with ZSU-23 Shilka coverage. The whole operation took 40 minutes. 3 killed and 6-8 injured.

MVD special groups never used outside of USSR.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Suave
Let me extrapolate for the benefit of the reader. In 1978 the marxist president of Afghanistan was a friend to the USSR. The USSR aided him greatly in resisting the anti-communist rebels, even to the point of signing a friendship and alliance treaty.

Well, in fact - Soviet Russia was the first country to recognise the state of Afghanistan in 1920.

IIRC "friendship and alliance treaty" was signed ages before 1978 April revolution.

USSR traditionally aided Afghani King, with all possible means, including training air-force pilots and giving free education to Afghani students.

[Suave]

The treaty was signed in 1978. MVD, ministry of defense, whatever. Yes the airborne troops were the 154th muslim battalion who had ZSUs as well as other vehicles.

5 kgb/gru spetsnaz were killed including Boyarinov, 36 wounded.  5 airborne troops were killed and 25 wounded. ( I had to look this up)

The ZSUs started shooting the palace at the onset of the assault but the 23mm rounds surprising bounced off the stone walls wounding the soviets assaulters. The spetsnaz cleared the palace WWII style, with fragmentation grenades.

[Suave]

Oh after further inquiry I've learned that there were indeed soviet Ministry of Internal affairs shooters there. MVD personel had been in Afghanistan quite awhile prior to the invasion.

I should've known better than to question myself

[Harry]

Originally posted by Boroda
Sorry.

USSR weapon exports policy was never to supply aggressors during the war. Iran-Iraq war ended in 1988, so Saddam had 2 years to buy that MiGs.

You can easliy make a list of criminal and aggressive regimes who bougth weapons in the US.

"While maintaining official neutrality in the Iran-Iraq War, the Soviet Union had provided extensive military assistance to Iraq, and at the same time, continued its efforts to gain leverage on Iran. In early 1987, Moscow delivered a squadron of twenty-four MiG-29 Fulcrums to Baghdad. Considered the most advanced fighter in the Soviet arsenal, the MiG-29 previously had been provided only to Syria and India. The decision to export the MiG-29 to Iraq, also assured Iraq a more advantageous payment schedule than any offered by the West and it reflected Soviet support for one of its traditional allies in the Middle East. In May 1987 the Soviets provided Iraq with better financial terms in a successful effort to prevent Iraq from buying sixty French Mirage 2000 fighters for an estimated US$3 billion. Caught in a financial crisis, Baghdad welcomed the low-interest loans Moscow extended for this equipment. "

The USSR was a major arms supplier to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Though you were hardly alone in that respect.