Author Topic: FoMoCo crash and burn (Read 1960 times)

Toad · « **Reply #105 on:** January 26, 2006, 01:34:58 AM »

LOL.

Why Nash... look at you, eh? All het up an' all.

It's my opinion; it might turn out that I'm wrong but I don't think it will. It's just history; there's nothing new under the sun.

Did you ever study the lifespan of empires/hegemony? Ever notice that each new one doesn't last near as long as the one before it?

Deny there's a massive shift in the world economy if you like. Pretend Canadian auto plants won't have to compete in the future with brand-spanking-new modern plants in countries with vast amounts of eager....and very cheap... labor. All the while Canada's birth rate is below replacement level, so you'll be allowing even more immigrants in to maintain your workforce. Maybe you can get some more Chinese to come over.

Don't matter to me.

It's just a prediction based on what I see, not some struggle to create a new Amreeka.

I may be right, I may be wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be right in the long view.

But having a big foofahraw about it with you won't influence either one of those outcomes.

Nighty-night.

Nash · « **Reply #106 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:05:09 AM »

Yeah, like "having a big foofahraw about it" was ever gonna change anything (and you and I have been foofahrawing it for years).

Maybe it's age. Maybe it's shame. Maybe it's the stark realization that you've been world-class-wrong all these years that causes you to suddenly prescribe nothing to your fans.

"Welcome to the global economy" says you.

In otherwords.... "It not us, it's the world.... so take a step back, breath, and wait for our impending death."

Rise up and do nothing.

To take it in the arse as it were.... because, for some twisted reason, America is suddenly a parapalegic with turrets. Ffft. You aint selling that to me, that's fer dang sure.

All it says is that you are tired... and can no longer figure out how to defend this nightmare in any reasonable way.

So what do you do? You throw your hands up in the air and claim that all of America is doomed.

How gawdamned lovely!

No. America is not doomed, and it will be in spite of guys like you trumpeting imbacilic talking points, fleshing them out to seem real, and then voting complete jack-arses into office based on them.

Toad - it's folks like you who are killing America. It's not just you solely - because certainly there are tons of others.... but the common denominator is the baby boom generation. I don't know what is up with that, but it's hard to ignore.

texace · « **Reply #107 on:** January 26, 2006, 10:08:53 AM »

Looks like we got the Canucks up in arms over something.

Toad · « **Reply #108 on:** January 26, 2006, 06:56:41 PM »

So tell me Nash.

10-15 years down the road, you're CEO of a company making a complex manufactured product. Sales are good, you're going to open another plant. You have to decide where to put the plant, Canada or China.

Simply put, if you build the plant in China, you can land the product on Canadian shores at a cost to you about 15% less than you can build the product in Canada. Quality is exactly the same.

Where will you build the factory?

'Splain it to me, Lucy.

As a sidenote, there are a few misconceptions spewed in your post.

1) I most certainly don't feel like I've been "world-class-wrong all these years". I think I've been pretty accurate for the most part. Would you care to elucidate with examples?

2) What exactly are you referring to when you say "figure out how to defend this nightmare"? I see no "nightmare" nor do I have them.

3) "You throw your hands up in the air and claim that all of America is doomed" is quite the exaggeration on your part. What I said, repeatedly, is that jobs that pay high wages are going to flow towards places where wages are low because now more than ever anything can be made anywhere. Would you care to state where you disagree with that? Countries survived the Industrial Revolution despite major changes in their societies. This really isn't any different. Society is just going to change, not disappear.

Lastly, it's good to see you up on the white horse in your shining armor again, even if the strident tone sounds a little forced and hollow.

J_A_B · « **Reply #109 on:** January 26, 2006, 09:51:08 PM »

Toad is right.

The problem is nobody cares about those jobs that are leaving. Not until it's their jobs, anyway.

Of course, I don't live in sunny Texas or California. I live right in the dead center of the rust belt, and I get to see the results of free trade every day in the form of vacant factories and decaying infastructure. My old man was a steelworker (US Steel) who was forced into early retirement.. Don't worry though, it'll catch up to you sun belt boys in due time, too. The entire USA is going to become a giant rust belt at the rate we're going.

And, typically, John Q. Public couldn't care less until it's his own job at stake. Add in the fact that both the Democrats and Republicans are bought by the corporations who profit (in the short term, which is all they think about) from this, and we have problems. Sooner or later, we either have to protect what we still have or settle for Wal-Mart wages.

However, I don't think this is the reason Ford/GM are failing so badly. If it was, they'd have shut down all of their NA plants years ago. They're simply building stupid ugly cars and their dealerships make the buying experience as annoying as possible. Instead of comming up with their own ideas, the US companies are often trying to copy their rivals. Why buy a crappy copy of a Toyota when you can just buy the real deal, often for less money and with a much more pleasant purchasing experience?

Not like Hondas are all that great. Ever single one I've ever driven was a flimsy, small, cheap-feeling sardine can. They simply last forever with no maintenence and are easier for women and city dwellers to drive. If the US companies got their collective heads out of their posteriors, they could easily regain their dominance.

American management is notoriously short-sighted. Many managers would happily take risks that would potentially bankrupt the company in 5 years' time if it meant bigger profits this week. In fact when I was in college, the business school was training the up-and-comming generation of management to do exactly that. No wonder that rivals who take a more long-term view are gradually pulling ahead.

J_A_B

EDIT:

"Quality is exactly the same."

This part, though, I disagree with. The quality of the junk being built in third-world countries is NOT the same. Korean steel sucked so badly compared to what we were making it's not even funny. The problem is nobody cares about quality anymore (except in advertising slogans), it's all about the bottom line.