FoMoCo crash and burn

[Gunthr]

Ford has lost billions - sales are in the toilet, while the Japanese car sales are booming.  Why can't Ford and GM be responsive to customers?  It makes you wonder what factors are at work here...

[Toad]

Mainly the incompetency of our l33t managers from the Ivy League B-schools. They have no clue what the customer wants or would buy, nor apparently do they care enough to find out. However, they are absolutely first rate on deciding what pay, perks and pensions they themselves deserve.

[Gunthr]

shame...  maybe they will heed the wake up call.

[Habu]

I think Ford has great products.

The Mustang is an amazing car.

The F Series pickups are the best in the market.

The Freestyle is a great mini-van/suv.

I don't think their problem is product. Go to a Ford dealer and try any of those out and tell me they are not something you would want to own.

[nuchpatrick]

Shoot.. has anyone really looked at a Ford lately.. Mustang/F-150 aside the rest of there car line up looks as if someone with a labotomy designed them.

At least GM has a few cars in there lineup I like. I know FWD sucks but that V8 stuffed in that 06 Impala SS is one fun ride!

DC also has some nice looking cars..

Some one at Ford needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

[Ripsnort]

I see two failures here.
Mismanagement of the company by top brass.

Unions. When you compete in a global market, wages must be competitive globally or you won't have a job. That's reality. Unfortunately, the Unions haven't figured that equation out yet.

[GtoRA2]

How much does the average UAW union guy make?


I heard they start at 60 bucks an hour, is that true?

[Tarmac]

The $60 an hour figure includes benefits and health care.   It's not take-home pay, it's what the guy is costing the auto companies once all his benefits are added up.  

Still, it's far too much for a guy who turns a bolt and won't get fired if he doesn't bother to show up.

[GtoRA2]

So whats the take home 40?

40 an hour hell even 30 an hour seems insane.


Back in 93 the Nummi plant in Fremont was starting at 12 an hour. (not a UAW shop) and that was pretty good starting pay at the time.

[Westy]

"tell me they are not something you would want to own."

 I wouldn't mind owning a new Ford.....

 for at most about 2 years.


 IMO, based on personal experience and those of relatives and neighbors, Ford products (GM and Chrsyler too) suck in the long run (more than 3 yrs).  If you want lasting value for then money then Honda or Toyota are the way to go.

 Examples of some pieces of latter day Ford shat I've owned (or been personal witness to the absolute cruditude of) were Escorts (talk about junky, throw away cars!), the newer "500" (did they use left over WWII German HE-162 glue to put it together?), Crown Vic (holy cracking plastic intake manifolds Batman!) and Rattletrapstar minivans for starters.

[Tarmac]

not sure.  I'd be pulling numbers out of my bellybutton (here I go!), but it's not that high.  Starting definately isn't near 30.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Unions. When you compete in a global market, wages must be competitive globally or you won't have a job. That's reality. Unfortunately, the Unions haven't figured that equation out yet.

Indeed, Rip. The Unions must figure out a way to beat these wages the Big 3 pay in other countries for similar work.

Big 3 Find More Level Playing Field Abroad

...China is the fastest-growing major auto market and has attracted all the big carmakers. GM is the country's second-largest automaker, behind Volkswagen. And like its rivals, about 35% of GM's payroll costs in China go toward pension, healthcare and other benefits.

Wages for autoworkers range from $1,000 a month that some VW workers in Shanghai reportedly get to as low as $75 a month for obscure Chinese auto companies such as Chery Automotive.

GM pays its workers about $350 a month in direct wages and contributes an additional $150 toward each worker's health insurance, pension and other benefits, according to Jia Xinguang, chief analyst at the China National Automotive Industry Consulting and Development Corp.
....


....Talk about pay and benefits isn't frowned upon in Mexico, however, where a dozen automakers build vehicles. GM, DaimlerChrysler, Nissan Motor Co. and Ford are the biggest, accounting for 97% of the 1.5 million vehicles made there in 2004.

Ford assembly worker Jose Toledo Garcia earns about $2.15 an hour to help build F-Series pickup trucks at its plant in Cuautitlan, just outside of Mexico City. Ford also pays about $500 a year to help fund his retirement plan, a 401(k)-type system into which all Mexican workers also pay a portion of their weekly earnings.

The yearly tab for Toledo's healthcare right now is about $1,000. Ford and Toledo each pay half. And there is no co-pay.

Ford's financial responsibility ends when Toledo hits the mandatory retirement age of 65. After that, the government bears his pension and medical costs.

And it's the same for every other automaker in Mexico...

THAT'S the America we all want, isn't it?

US autoworkers competitively building F-150's for $2.15 an hour to stem the exodus of jobs to Mexican plants. $500 bucks a month to compete with Chinese folks bolting a Chevy together.

Yep... THAT'S what will solve the problem here all right.

Now Main Street's white washed windows and vacant stores

seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more

They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to

your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

Your hometown

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Gunthr
It makes you wonder what factors are at work here...

U, A, and W.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Deleted.

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[indy007]

Ford can become competitive again if they outsource manufacturing to chip away at their massive losses. I can get a guy to turn that same bolt for a few pennies an hour, with no benefits, who'll have better attendance, work longer hours, and not be able to go on strike. Profits will go through the roof, even with less overall sales.

Probably not the answer everybody wanted, huh?