History of religion

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Drediock,



Anyway, Dred, I personally have no problem with people saying "I don't believe that God parted the Red Sea" but, my teeth personally clench when people come up with rationalistic and untenable explanations that presume that everyone in the past was thicker than a brick. Personally, I think we live in an age of declining, not increasing, wisdom.

- SEAGOON

Respectfully.

I believe God is responcable for a great many things. But I also believe that he must do so within certain Scientific laws and principles he himself created and used to make these things possible.

As for the Red Sea. It is my understanding that this is merely a mistranslation. Remember, the bible, and the old testament in particular has been translated and retranslated a great many times before its gotten to our current version. I'll have to look and see if I can find the links explaining this. But it was written by a Rabbi who stated that in the course of one of the translations the word Red, and reed are essentially the same and could have meant either.

It is also supported by the mentioning of passing by I believe it was Papyrus (forgive me as its been a while since I actually looked all this stuff up). In any event the type of plant they passed by will not grow near salt water.
Furthermore,at the time the Red Sea was not called the "red sea at all by the Egyptians but was called "the Green Sea" Moses having as you stated been raised in Egypt would have also no doubt referred to it as the same.

Also it could have very well been misunderstood one for the other as the Reed Sea is also an inlet to the Red Sea

In any event getting back to my original statement. Virtually every singe event of the exodus From the pillar of fire, to the plagues to the parting of the Sea (whichever you prefer to call it) is well within scientific plausibility.

I Still maintain that the true miracle wasn't in that these things happened But that Moses knew these things would happen.
And to the people of that time All of these events would seem like miracles.
And trying to explain it to them would be like trying to explain quantum physics to a 2 year old and expecting him to get it.
As we ourselves only recently have begun to understand the science behind it.

I have great faith that the Exodus did happen the way described in the Bible.
Science actually supports the events
I only have a problem with some of the details in the way it was recorded.
After all. It was recorded, Translated and retranslated time and again by humans

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Silat
Rip please post links to show which major religion hasnt sponsored torture and or murder in its history...

Another with reading disorder....

"those religions that don't actively sponsor murder in the radical sense"[/i]

Key word...Actively.  Another key word. Radical.  There you go. Now continue on making yourself feel good by bashing religion. The religious just ignore you so ultimately you're just making yourself feel good.  You obviously need it (or you wouldn't continue to take pot shots on religion on this board like you so consistently do), so please be my guest and continue.

[indy007]

Originally posted by Silat
Rip please post links to show which major religion hasnt sponsored torture and or murder in its history...

Came up kinda dry trying to find Budhdhist atrocities. Found one kingdom that persecuted muslims, but that reading indicated it was more politics than "my god is better than your god".

[Vulcan]

Rip I think the issue is that most religions have high profile examples of radicalism or abuse (sexual, monetary, powerwise etc) of some sort. In fact the only examples I can think of who don't have their extreme factions are the buddhists and hindu's.

Over the last decade these radicals and examples of bad stuff going on within various religions have grown more in profile, and you know how things work in this world... the squeeky wheel gets the oil.

And despite most people in the west bagging islam I think there is an underlying knowledge of the history of christianity vs islam, and so most people see islam as the modern culprit they know that christianity had a hand in giving it a good rattle.

edit: indy, thats not the real buddha,  hes more like this:



Gotta remember, buddha fasted with those indian holyman that live in the hills in isolation. Incidentally there is some traditional indian knowledge that says jesus travelled to india and learn't magic tricks from indian shamen.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Yeager
Christianity, as it has evolved in western civilization to its present form, I believe is by and large a positive force for many millions of people and enriches their day and the lives of everyone around them.

I would tend to agree by and large that overall it is much more civilised then it was even a few hundred years ago.
But still. there is a radical segment that hasnt changed much. But this is true in any society.

On the other hand. is it the religeon that has evolved? or the people that practice it?

The words are the same. its how we enterpet the words that has changed as well as what we take from it.
Today, as a wholewe tend to take the parts we like or agree with and ignore what we dont.
I know I am just as guilty of this as anyone



Islam on the other hand, has not impressed me very much.  I admit I need to study it further but what I see in the world today leads me to believe that, as a religion, Islam seems rather poorly engineered.  For reasons I dont fully understand, Islam does not appear to have evolved much at all.  Its people still seem to think like they did 1000 years ago.

Again I would agree. But Think about it. By maintaining the same mindset now as they did 1,000 years ago. they are probably closer to how their religeon was intended to be practiced then we are to ours.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Many of the people who rolled up their sleeves, gathered up supplies, food and equipment, and left home to aid the victims of hurricane Katrina, both black and white, were members of church congregations in Arkansas, Texas, Alabama, and other neighboring states.

Gee, guess they didn't know they were supposed to be brutish, ignorant, racist, and bloodthirsty religious fanatics.

WhatEVER could have come over them?

Many of the people who rolled up their sleeves, gathered up supplies, food and equipment, and left home to aid the victims of hurricane Katrina, both black and white, were not members of any organized religion.

Gee, guess they didn't know they were supposed to be brutish, ignorant, racist, and bloodthirsty.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Another with reading disorder....

"those religions that don't actively sponsor murder in the radical sense"[/i]

Key word...Actively.  Another key word. Radical.  There you go. Now continue on making yourself feel good by bashing religion. The religious just ignore you so ultimately you're just making yourself feel good.  You obviously need it (or you wouldn't continue to take pot shots on religion on this board like you so consistently do), so please be my guest and continue.

I read you just fine.

<<Though I am not a religous person, I've noticed that the behavior of those who go out of their way to slam religions (those religions that don't actively sponsor murder in the radical sense) have a similiar pattern. These people usually have some pretty severe issues in their own lives. They can't stand to see someone who is devoted and follow guidelines. This person usually has not achieved self-actualization in Maslows theory of heirarchy and this person tends to subliminally doubt ones self but masks it with overconfidence on the surface.
>>>



YOu are commenting on this thread I presume or ?????
Therefore you are saying that I and others  slammed religions that dont actively sponsor murder in the radical sense.
Now what part of my question are you having a problem with?
Its sad to see those with faith being so insecure in their beliefs that they personally attack anyone who doesnt believe in their comic book.
And please dont belittle us by saying you were speaking in vague generalities......

[DrDea]

Ive always concidered religion as a form of crowd control.EVERY religion cepting the hindu and buddah types have murdered many in the name of their "God".That to me shows the falsness inherant in religion.Love thy neighbor unless he wont convert.Theirs alot of good that comes from religion,theres also as much horror.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by DrDea
.....EVERY religion cepting the hindu and buddah types have murdered many in the name of their "God".That to me shows the falsness inherant in religion.Love thy neighbor unless he wont convert.Theirs alot of good that comes from religion,theres also as much horror.

I think in a lot of cases it's not the religion but the murderers excuse of doing it for his higher power that is to blame for that.

Like the gun saying  "Religion doesn't kill people......  people kill people."

of course, unless it's a religion that actually advocates it.... but Christianity doesn't at all.  But there have been some "people" that have in the name of Christianity.

[Silat]

Originally posted by mosgood
I think in a lot of cases it's not the religion but the murderers excuse of doing it for his higher power that is to blame for that.

Like the gun saying  "Religion doesn't kill people......  people kill people."

of course, unless it's a religion that actually advocates it.... but Christianity doesn't at all.  But there have been some "people" that have in the name of Christianity.

Remember the Inquisition? Killing and torturing in the name of Christ was advocated by the church.
That was the Christians dirty period. Well one of them.'
Islam appears to be having their Inquisition period to me. Maybe they need about 5 centuries till they become ENLIGHTENED like Christians.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

the Miracle is that Moses Knew they would happen.

Like many other stories of Bible this would probably be a pagan 'miracle' going around in stories of the populace that was then adopted as a part of the Bible. Chances are, someone sometime somewhere witnessed the 'splitting of sea' and perhaps even made it through to the other side. But that person to be Moses - highly unlikely.

Doesn't it make any believers wonder why the world was full of magic and miracles just 2000 years ago - and now there's just plain old reality?

What happened meanwhile? Why did the miracles and magic disappear? Why aren't there loud booming voices talking to masses around every corner anymore?

One would think that one would get curious about it. At least a bit.

OT: Lazs bringing gun control to this topic shows that guns are in fact his religion.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Silat
Remember the Inquisition? Killing and torturing in the name of Christ was advocated by the church.
That was the Christians dirty period. Well one of them.'
Islam appears to be having their Inquisition period to me. Maybe they need about 5 centuries till they become ENLIGHTENED like Christians.

Silat, with all due respect, you have not one clue what you are talking about when it comes to either the history of Christianity or Islam.  You make assumptions based on your own personal beliefs and some catch phrase from a history book you read 20 years ago and base your arguments on half-formed feelings and opinions someone else gave you.  

You cannot always equate Christians with Christianity, nor can you always equate Moslems with Islam.  People are fallible and always will be.  There will always be someone who gets into a position of power, be it religious or secular, and abuses that power to do things that have nothing to do with the source of it.  

Can you tell me why we have a seemingly infinite number of Christian denominations, yet only 2 Moslem denominations?  Can you tell me how the 3 great monotheistic religions of the world are all related?  Can you tell me what the Koran teaches about dealing with Christians and Jews?  Have you ever SEEN a Koran?  Have you ever read a Bible?  

Stick to attacking Republican and/or conservatives.  Its a job you know and do well.  this isnt.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

There will always be someone who gets into a position of power, be it religious or secular, and abuses that power to do things that have nothing to do with the source of it.

The difference is that when the power is on a religious level the followers tend to put all rationality aside and do insanely monstrous things. In the name of whichever God they're fooled into believing.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The difference is that when the power is on a religious level the followers tend to put all rationality aside and do insanely monstrous things. In the name of whichever God they're fooled into believing.

yup

[Leslie]

Originally posted by Silat
I think this about covers it....................

Let's look at this cartoon.  A caveman is worshiping a rock that resembles a lava lamp.  He is in a meditative posture and another caveman comes up and calls him stupid.  What happens next is what cavemen do when disturbed and called stupid.  The caveman then resumes his worship as if nothing happened, and uses the term "infidel".

Somehow this is supposed to represent what religion is about, but doesn't specify any in particular by the title.  Yes it does cover "it," very well.  What it covers is the spiritual cowardness of cartoons like this.  It's vague on purpose.  Though it doesn't fool anybody.  A roundabout way of refering to Islamic extremists without calling them stupid.  They're saying "Hey don't look at me, all religions are stupid."

Gawd!  Unbelievable.



Les