Originally posted by lazs2
chopsaw...you object to children being well educated if they also are recieving religious education from the school that their parents choose? I can only think that it is because as a taxpayer you want to take all religion out of anything the government pays for with your money? Religions get money all the time from you in the form of taxes by simply.... not paying any and increasing your burden... you support all churches and charities (regardless of denomination) with your taxes.
Same for school... there would be no restriction on type of religion... all would be eligable. you have no problem with religious schools now...you claim it is only that you don't want to support them with tax money.... You allready do and..
You allow only one type of school to monopolize now... whatever that schools current policy is makes up the indoctrinization of the children... You seem to have no problem with that.
As for uniforms? I think studies show that you are wrong... I think that the pressure of the real uniform...the one that is acceptable to public school children is the real problem... the pressure on kids and parents to have the right "individualistic" uniform or be laughed off the schoolyard.
Kids do not want to stand out except in very rare cases... they want to fit in... Uniforms remove a burden and a distraction and a possible source of violence.
But... I am interested in what you think.. You have your public school monopoly... no religion... no uniforms... no competition... they are consitently outperformed by private and home schooling... More is spent every year and the results get worse and worse every year..
What would you suggest being as how you feel that education is so important that each of us should pay for it? Is it results you want or just a perception of doing something?
if you never have vouchers then you will never have any private schools other than religious or home schooling and.... public school will only get worse.
Yes. I object to my taxes being spent on religious education. I thought I was clear on that. Since there are a good many private schools other than religious ones, I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.
Religions get a tax free status in this country. They also, until recently, stay out of politics, at least in an overt manner, and that to me is a good trade off. Recently religions have been poking their snoots into politics and I believe their tax free status could stand some review. Regardless, throwing good money after bad has never been a policy I endorse. There's no reason to give religions more just because we give them some through tax exempt status.
I think where I grew up and now live must be very different from your neck of the woods. Where I went to school, I wasn't aware of anyone laughing at the way I dressed and I did enjoy having my own look. My parents weren't rich and we didn't spend large sums of money trying to keep up with any particular look. The same is true for my son. While kids do want to fit in, they also want to express themselves and the most basic way they can do it is through personal grooming and clothing. While they do want to fit in, they also want to stand out. I strongly resist the notion of children being placed in uniforms like good little soldiers.
As far as your studies go? I've seen them. They are based upon fallacious and self interested ideas and manufactured "facts". Statistics will say whatever you want them to. It just depends upon who commissions the study.
Yes, I want results in public education. This is why I believe the teacher whose rant started this thread should be terminated. In my area of the country public schooling is starting to increase its effectiveness. Pressure has been applied by interested citizens, both parents and others. People could further affect this by taking an active interest in school affairs. If necessary, parents should be getting in the face of the school and asking what the heck is going on in a particular situation. I've done this and I can assure you, it is very effective. School boards are political entities and politicians of any kind respond to scrutiny and comment. As an example; recently in this country a school board voted in a pro intelligent design (creationism) fashion. Next election every one of them was removed from their position and their decision reversed.
Where would you put all the children that don't get into private schools? There isn't enough room for all of them in private schools. Do you think just because they have vouchers they would be admitted? Some would get into good private schools, some would get into not so good private schools, some would get into parochial schools and some would be left in public schools. The public schools would be poorer than they were because of the outflow of money in the form of vouchers.
Public schools become better when people put them under a magnifying glass and start watching. If people don't like what they see and they start kicking about it, the school changes in response. Private schools, especially parochial ones, have a much reduced vector in this sense. If you don't like what's going on, you're expected to button it or go elsewhere. This becomes exacerbated in schools difficult to get into.
In summary. Yes, I want results. I want to see the public schools continue to change for the better. I do not want the results your proposal would bring. If parents wish to put their children in parochial schools and/or stick them in uniform, let them do it on their own dime. Not mine.
