Why are so many pacifists?

[Sturm]

just curious but I guarantee the vast majority have never served in the military and really do not understand the word freedom.  It really ticks me off to see these rallies or speeches garnering the military as murderers or waste of tax dollars.  How soon we forget why we have such freedoms and at what cost it took to get them.  Shame on those that publicly deface the military and for what it has done for us.  

I cannot stand the Hanoi Jane types or the wanna be GI Joes.  So my question to you is, what do you think freedom is, what is your respect to freedom, and how did it come about in your country?  To me pacifists seem a little light in the loafers as well but that is my opinion.  

------------------

[1776]

The draft needs to be reimplemented so US citizens can have a better understanding of what the military is.  Nothing like an up-close personal experience to focus the true meaning of the job of the military.

We need leadership that understands that the military is no place to experiment with social engineering!!

The military should only be used to kill people and break things of our enemies.  There is no other reason to have a military!!

[miko2d]

 Two very different questions here. Sart with the simple one.

 Military is a means for a nation to apply violence if needed. Many people through ignorance and/or wishfull thinking do not believe there is or will be a need for violence.

 Freedom. Come to think of it - it is simple too. When you have freedom you have opportunity to do certain things and you have responcibility for many things as a tradeoff.

 Responcibility applies to everyone and is very burdensome.
 Opportunity is of use only to a very limited minority of people - those with intelligence and motivation.
 Of course when such people prosper, the rest of the population prosper as well in a free market society, but since the link is indirect, you need intelligence, education and foresight to understand it. Those qualities majority of people lack. What they do not lack is envy to someone who is doing better then themselves.

 miko

[Dowding]

If you are talking about a National service type thing, it ended over here, because the military was not too keen on training tens of thousands of kids above its normal recruitment needs.

Expensive and not particularly useful.

Sturm - if people want to be pacifists, then why should you disagree with that? Just because you do not share such a belief, there is no need to belittle it.

I don't want to think you are an idiot, but from your deroguetory comment, it's hard not to. Perhaps you ought to look into history next time, and (this is only a suggestion) apply some cognitive function.

I happen to think its a very honourable thing to be. For instance, Conscientious objectors in WW2 were often ambulance drivers right at the front - they were as brave as the soldiers they were saving.



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 04-27-2001).]

[jihad]

The draft needs to be reimplemented so US citizens can have a better understanding of what the military is.

AMEN!

It would also teach a lot of young Americans something they didn't learn from their parents - DISCIPLINE!

There is no experience as life changing as stepping off the bus at basic training.

"YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS TO GET OFF THAT BUS - AND GOD HELP THE LAST ONE!"

 The 1st words I heard when I arrived for basic training/MP school at Ft McClellan,AL 1981.  

[Sandman_SBM]

   

Originally posted by 1776:
The draft needs to be reimplemented so US citizens can have a better understanding of what the military is.  Nothing like an up-close personal experience to focus the true meaning of the job of the military.

I somewhat agree that the draft should be reimplemented, but for different reasons. I was in the military... I looked for the meaning of the job and had a difficult time finding it. Therefore, I got out. But... I do think the draft is necessary. One of these days, we are going to get into another costly conflict and someone is bound to look up and notice that the only boys dying are poor and underprivileged. It may be a gross generalization but it seems to me that the majority of the military is made up of people who enjoy the least of what a free country has to offer.

   

We need leadership that understands that the military is no place to experiment with social engineering!!

It's not a social experiment. The military absolutely must evolve along with the society it is meant to protect. Otherwise, the only people suited for military service would be neanderthals that can't cope in the real world. The military should not be a refuge for people that think harassing women and homosexuals is okay.

 

The military should only be used to kill people and break things of our enemies.  There is no other reason to have a military!!

Nope... read your textbooks, young soldiers. One of the primary purposes of the military is simply as a show of strength. You can accomplish quite a bit without ever having exchanged blows. Read some Sun Tzu.

 

Originally posted by jihad:
It would also teach a lot of young Americans something they didn't learn from their parents - DISCIPLINE!

...which highlights the worst part about being a supervisor in the military. One of the first things I had to teach almost every FNG was, "I am not your mother."

------------------
cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs
The SBM's are hiring!

[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-27-2001).]

[Sturm]

 

Sturm - if people want to be pacifists, then why should you disagree with that? Just because you do not share such a belief, there is no need to belittle it.

I don't want to think you are an idiot, but from your deroguetory comment, it's hard not to. Pot calling Kettle black wouldn't ya say?


Perhaps you ought to look into history next time, and (this is only a suggestion) apply some cognitive function.

I study history as a past time, fire away.

I happen to think its a very honourable thing to be.

[So is dousing ones self in a square with gasoline.  lol  At any rate I don't think you got the jist of what i was saying.  If you think it is honorable to go around bashing the military and then turn your tail and run when the heat is on, I have no respect for you and would offer you to teh enemy in a heart beat.  Your kind are what we defended for and kept your hopes alive and well.  I find that repulsive.  If you don't like it thats fine, don't say watermelon about what they are doing then.  


For instance, Conscientious objectors in WW2 were often ambulance drivers right at the front - they were as brave as the soldiers they were saving.

Just to let ya know they didn't have ambulances at the front there.   (Image removed from quote.)  You have been watching way to many war movies, ambulances are kept in rear areas, most of the victims being moved by stretcher or jeep to evacuation points for the injured.  

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
But... I do think the draft is necessary. One of these days, we are going to get into another costly conflict and someone is bound to look up and notice that the only boys dying are poor and underprivileged. It may be a gross generalization but it seems to me that the majority of the military is made up of people who enjoy the least of what a free country has to offer.

 Could it be that people are poor and underprivileged because they are less capable to succeed for inherent reasons, like intelligence? That doesn't mean they cannot be good soldiers and being a soldier in US is a decent occupation.
 How does that relate to draft? If you think that even with draft the wealthy will avoid military service and screw up the poor, it means a society has a problem. If some are allowed to screw up others, they will do it - draft or no draft.

Nope... read your textbooks, young soldiers. One of the primary purposes of the military is simply as a show of strength. You can accomplish quite a bit without ever having exchanged blows. Read some Sun Tzu.
 Read your textbooks. An army created for the show of strength usually has no strength other then for show.
 I am sure 1776 did not mean that our military should be engaged full-time. He could have said "The military should only be used to kill people and break things of our enemies if needed." but you should have understood it yourself.

 miko

[mrfish]

why are there so many people against war...?

wha?

[Sandman_SBM]

 

Could it be that people are poor and underprivileged because they are less capable to succeed for inherent reasons, like intelligence? That doesn't mean they cannot be good soldiers and being a soldier in US is a decent occupation.

Ya know... one could read this and then draw the conclusion that soldiers are somehow less intelligence than civilians. Nope... not even going to touch that one.  

 

An army created for the show of strength usually has no strength other then for show.

Hehe... we're dancing around semantics. Let's just say that the threat of a competent army is often enough to discourage conflict.  

[SOB]

"the draft should be re-implimented"

Christ, some of you guys really worry me.  It IS possible to appreciate our country and the freedoms that we have AND not serve in the military.


SOB

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by SOB:
"the draft should be re-implimented"

Christ, some of you guys really worry me.  It IS possible to appreciate our country and the freedoms that we have AND not serve in the military.


SOB

SOB, I believe that this thread is speaking of the preservation of our country and the freedoms that we have...that would include having a draft.  After all, a country prepared is a country not invaded. (Forget who said that, but, having a big ocean on either side helps too!)

[Sturm]

 

Originally posted by SOB:
"the draft should be re-implimented"

Christ, some of you guys really worry me.  It IS possible to appreciate our country and the freedoms that we have AND not serve in the military.


SOB

Is it possible?  Maybe but not for the tree huggers.
Can we still look at you with respect?  We will let you know later.
Is it happy hour yet?  toejam yeah it is off to get a few down the hatch

And I am kidding everyone gets there panties all ruffled up to easy sometimes  

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
SOB, I believe that this thread is speaking of the preservation of our country and the freedoms that we have...that would include having a draft.  After all, a country prepared is a country not invaded. (Forget who said that, but, having a big ocean on either side helps too!)

That's great...so you think the current state of our military, without a draft, is inviting invation of our borders?

So which country is it that you think is going to risk invading the US and going to war with us, Britain & our other allies?


SOB

[Sturm]

 

Originally posted by SOB:
That's great...so you think the current state of our military, without a draft, is inviting invation of our borders?

So which country is it that you think is going to risk invading the US and going to war with us, Britain & our other allies?


SOB

Sorry but teh UK can't take us either,they had a hard enough time with argentina.  

We are bad
We are good
we got 2 oceans
While canucks chop wood.