'Day Without Immigrants' under way

[lazs2]

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2537000&nav=menu135_2_5

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275

http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm

http://madtechspeaks.blogspot.com/2005/05/hidden-cost-of-illegal-immigration.html

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/huddlenr.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040825-031809-3159r.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7820047/from/RL.3/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12157299/from/RL.1/

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/mostread/s_450498.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1609318/posts

there are hundreds of more sights with only the NY times (big surprise) saying that "it looks bad sure... but maybe not as bad as it seems"

Most of the sites I have come upon seem to cite the governments Center for Immigration study... they also take state sponsored studies and just plain opinions...

In any case... the costs never seem to worth it.

as for my "ridiculous perceptions" of you.... do you and I not dissagree on allmost every important matter?   Do you not vote democrat far more often than republican?

lazs

[Sandman]

Perfect. We're back on topic.

Er... almost perfect.

I have no idea which candidates I vote most for because I don't vote along party lines, but I always vote no on any new tax or anything that costs more money. It is my opinion that the state and federal governments already have more money than they need and I vote accordingly.

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by Sandman
Prove I'm wrong. You don't know the true economic costs of 15 million illegal immigrants and you don't know the cost of immigration reform.

 

One thing is certain: We are not ever going to deport 24 million illegals, so the cost doesn't matter much either way.

That's why I favor securing the borders first. We can build a wall, put cameras and sensors up and get the military down there to man everything. I'd bet we could stop over 90% of these criminal scumbags from sneaking into the country.. We can estimate the cost of doing this to a reasonable degree.

Will it cost a lot? Yes

Can it be done? Yes

Is it worth it? Our country NEEDS to do this, sooner or later. Well worth it.

Once the border is secured, give the scumbag, lying, dishonest criminals already in the country amnesty and get them all documented. They are here anyway and they are not going away.

From that point on, every illegal caught in the country is charged with a felony and deported. If they come back, they are prosecuted and sent to a tent city out in the desert.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Mr Big

Once the border is secured, give the scumbag, lying, dishonest criminals already in the country amnesty and get them all documented. They are here anyway and they are not going away.

You build that big wonderful wall and then you give the "insiders" amnesty?

Hardly... you put 'em back on their side of the wall.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Mr Big

I'd bet we could stop over 90% of these criminal scumbags from sneaking into the country.. We can estimate the cost of doing this to a reasonable degree.

That's the only crime more often than not; sneaking across the border. It's a misdemeanor offense.

I can't find myself calling someone a criminal scumbag simply because they want more for themselves and their families and they're willing to work for it. I suspect that most of us if faced with the same sort of poverty would do the same.

[Mr Big]

I think that giving them amnesty is the most practical solution.

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by Sandman
That's the only crime more often than not; sneaking across the border. It's a misdemeanor offense.

I can't find myself calling someone a criminal scumbag simply because they want more for themselves and their families and they're willing to work for it. I suspect that most of us if faced with the same sort of poverty would do the same.

Here in Maricopa county, it's a felony now. Our borders must be secure.

And I call them that in response to Lazs calling the people who hire them the same names. Both are breaking the laws,  lying and being dishonest just to try to make more money.

[Sandman]

That's nice, but illegal immigration is not a state offense. It's a federal offense and the federal government will not allow the state to take action. That the SC struck down California's Prop 187 is an example of this.

[lazs2]

well... we do agree on the fact that the illegals are doing what they do because they are trying to improve a very bad life situation.   They are criminals but... what are they to think?  they come here and once here... their "illegal" status is ignored and they are hired eagerly...They have very little incentive to obey the "law".

As such... stronger borders are both needed and... impossible to make 100% effective and.... probly costly.... not 10-30 billion dollars a year costly like what illegals cost but.... costly.

The absolute best way to do the most good is to arrest the real criminals causing the problem... the scum bag traitors.... the employers.   It is the easiest and most cost effective way.   Stronger borders are needed but only in conjuction with jailing the scum bag employers.

lazs

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by Sandman
That's nice, but illegal immigration is not a state offense. It's a federal offense and the federal government will not allow the state to take action. That the SC struck down California's Prop 187 is an example of this.

Well, we are already taking action. Hundreds of arrests have been made under the new law. Conspiracy to smuggle an illegal across the border is now a felony here. Conspiring to smuggle oneself falls under the definition of the law as it's been interpreted.

[Sandman]

Smuggling illegal aliens is a federal felony offense, IIRC.

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by lazs2
 They are criminals but... what are they to think?  they come here and once here... their "illegal" status is ignored and they are hired eagerly...They have very little incentive to obey the "law".

lazs

Works both ways. What is Joe from Joe's landscape to think? The laws against hiring illegals is ignored and there are hundreds of illegals standing on the corner willing to work. Joe has to eat too. Very little incentive to obey the law.

The small business is a victim just as much as the illegal is, but you can't see it. The government has allowed the laws to be ignored....even encouraged it.

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by Sandman
Smuggling illegal aliens is a federal felony offense, IIRC.

Tell that to Maricopa county and the Sherrif

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Mr Big

The small business is a victim just as much as the illegal is, but you can't see it. The government has allowed the laws to be ignored....even encouraged it.

It's called capitalism.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Mr Big
Tell that to Maricopa county and the Sherrif

That doesn't mean they can't enforce it. What I meant was that the states cannot make immigration laws that are more restrictive than federal statutes.