Dowding, you seem upset by the way things are being run...what would you do?

[LtHans]

This is for Dowding, but really anybody can answer here.

If your unhappy with how the US and UK government is handling things, what would you do if you were in charge?

Hans.

[-ammo-]

He would call for a meeting and then the leaders would go around the room in turn explaining their feelings on the matter. There would be a fine dinner served (vegitarian of course) and at the end of the discussions, there will be a mandated group hug. That oughta fix the whole thing....

 

[Dowding]

Point out specific points I have made that give you that impression, Hans, and I'll expand on them further.

But for the record, I don't see how it is possible to use military force alone to kill off an organisation that is so globalised. While military action is perhaps worthwhile in the short-term, it will not solve the problem in the long-term. And when you're fighting against terrorism, the long-term game is the only game to play if the problem is to be minimised or isolated.

I also believe that the US is alone in its wish to expand the war against terrorism by, for example, bombing Iraq. The UN and, importantly from the US's POV, the UK have officially voiced their opposition to such a move. Assuming Bin Laden and his cronies are captured/elliminated in Afghanistan, other tools (diplomacy, economics, intelligence etc) will have to be used to fight the global terrorism network responsible for the attacks in the US.

I have concerns about the impact the bombing is having on the whole region around Afghanistan. With fragile states who hold nuclear weapons, more should be done to stabilise the refugee situation. Fortunately, the UK has pledged 13 million pounds to Pakistan to help the refugee crisis and the US has done likewise. But I can see it taking a lot more to prevent the region from imploding.

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by Dowding:
I also believe that the US is alone in its wish to expand the war against terrorism by, for example, bombing Iraq. The UN and, importantly from the US's POV, the UK have officially voiced their opposition to such a move.

Yes, well Bin Laden and Hussein are linked.

Do you need anymore reason to not let Hussein reign?
-SW

[Hangtime]

"Tyranny is a fine high perch..

..with no step down."

So, with a dictator for life in place in Iraq, one that has an avowed intrest in and possession of chemical, biological and possible nuclear weapons of mass destruction and an agenda to destroy the US, our choice is clear.

Get him before he gets us.

[mrfish]

i don't think this war is so much about terrorism as it is about a change in the world order.

there are too many places with idiot waring city-state gov'ts and no roads commerce, rights, etc that are still wasting time fighting stupid religious wars and trifling over what allah said or whether it's ok to eat this on saturdays and other such tired nonsense.

there's just no place for there silliness anymore, it's time to get a stable gov't and move on.

the modern world is passing them by and it brings the whole world down.

we had patience for them before but not after sep 11th.

traditionally, the strong nation or empire would just conquer them without having to make any excuses, but in this day and age you have to have some noble reason.

i think we are using this as an excuse to put mcdonalds there, but i'm not saying that's a bad thing.

the immediate effects of globalization suck, but the long term affects are awesome. at first you get the chains but when people get sick of it the paradigm shifts and ma and pa can open there store with the money they made workin for the man.

microsoft is only rich because people buy microsoft products - this puts the power in the hands of the people - if public opinion shifts the world changes - that's what these poor-assed terrorist countries have to gain - personal power - and of course the right to drive a cadillac on nice roads.

this terrorist attack is allowing us to occupy and bring into the fold many countries that would have taken years to get on board otherwise.

[fd ski]

No, you got it wrong ammo.

He would call for a meeting where all those leaders could discover how much Jesus loves them and work on their relationships with allmighty. Next would be 6 hours in church repeating same prayers over and over again, and then self lashing. After that, they wouldn't have enough gray cells left to hate anything..

-----------------------------------------
Character assasination is a squeak, isn't it ?
 

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: fd ski ]

[Hangtime]

LOL fd ski!!

Now everybodys sure he's a holy-rollin commie.

Bwahahahhahha!!

[Dowding]

So I'm a communist now?

I'm getting a little tired of the same pathetic insults.

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

[weazel]

lol Bart!    

[easymo]

While I am pleased to the point of surprise, by the actions of the President.  I am a little disappointed with the body counts being reported from Afghanistan.  I know we are depending mostly on what is reported by the Teliban for the numbers. Questionable numbers at best.  Still I think our boys can do better.

  I know some folks, like hangtime, are itching to use nukes.  I think that is a little excessive. Five hundred thousand dead should settle our accounts nicely.  And we can do that easily with conventional weapons.

  What I feel is needed here is the ground ponders.  Grunts don't fight a push button war.  They have to close with the enemy to do there work.  Often as not, they have to get within smelling distance to do their killing.  When you absolutely want to know the bastard is dead.  You call the infantry.  Things change for the flyboys at this point also.  They will take chances to cover the infantry ass.  That they would never take just to bomb an ordinary target.  The overall effect is much more efficient.

[weazel]

What I feel is needed here is the ground ponders.  Grunts don't fight a push button war.  They have to close with the enemy to do there work.  Often as not, they have to get within smelling distance to do their killing.  When you absolutely want to know the bastard is dead.  You call the infantry.  Things change for the flyboys at this point also.  They will take chances to cover the infantry ass.  That they would never take just to bomb an ordinary target.  The overall effect is much more efficient.


In the past I've rarely agreed with easymo, and in the beginning of this war I didn't like the idea of massive use of ground troops in Afghanistan.

After reading some articles about the Bush administrations plans for using troops in "hit and run" operations where we don't seek to hold the ground we fight for I begin to question the wisdom of the wars planners.

Sounds like the dumb tulips didn't learn their lesson in Vietnam, if they are going to half bellybutton the war then I withdraw my support due to their "lack of vision" in prosecuting the war.

You don't fight wars in a half assed fashion, you apply overwhelming force, get in the enemys face and kick his ass!

I would have reenlisted after 9/11 but I was too old, seeing that kind of BS makes me glad I wasn't able to.

[Toad]

The Ground War will come, when the time is right.

I'm not aware of any "rules" requiring us to instantly apply overwhelming force. In fact, going in early is only going to cost us more casualties.

Believe it or not, there really are some current military leaders that have a real good idea how to go about this one.

Weasel, why don't you let them do what they know how to do and see how it goes?

The Gulf War turned out OK, except for the fact that it was stopped too early. That was a POLITICAL decision, not a military one.

They're probably not going to fight it exactly the way you would do it.

I, for one, am glad of that. I think they've probably got a much better read on terrain, weather, enemy capability, our capability, war objectives, supply and logistics, etc. than just about anyone that posts on this BBS. Including me.

Stand back and let the pros work.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by fd ski:
No, you got it wrong ammo.

He would call for a meeting where all those leaders could discover how much Jesus loves them and work on their relationships with allmighty. Next would be 6 hours in church repeating same prayers over and over again, and then self lashing. After that, they wouldn't have enough gray cells left to hate anything..

-----------------------------------------
Character assasination is a squeak, isn't it ?
 

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: fd ski ]

touche..

"He would call for a meeting where all those leaders could discover how much Jesus loves them and work on their relationships with allmighty."

Could have added they put their faith in Christ and all decided to commit to let Him handle the situation.. Meeting over, problem solved.

 

[weazel]

Toad, all I'm saying is it's stupid to have a battle for a given place and after you win to pack up and leave.

How many hills, etc in Vietnam were watered with our soldiers blood repeatedly using the same half assed doctrine?

Believe me I hate the thought of losing American soldiers, I hate more the idea of losing them due to a half baked policy like that. <S>