Author Topic: Il-2... first impressions  (Read 984 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

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Il-2... first impressions
« on: August 26, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »
I've logged about 20 hours playing this game... take this for exactly what it is worth... an oppinion from someone with a fixed set of views.

Flight Model:

  • Rudders: The rudder authority in the P-39 is way overdone.  A slight touch to the rudder gives you 5 degrees of movement on the nose.
  • Roll: The roll rates seem a tad bit high.. actually... pretty damn high.  Definately needs work.
  • Acceleration:  If you deem being able to accelerate to 600 mph in a P-39 without using wep excessive... then something is a tad bit wrong here.  You can go from 200 at the top of a loop to 400 at the bottom with 0% throttle and constant g's being applied.
  • Turning:  The seem to have modeled this realistically to a point.  The side-slip is noticeable, but I think it is over exagerated.  A 720 degree turn at 350 drops you way too much.  Seems to me that at the higher speeds, rudder input in the turns is not as prevelant as at lower speeds.
  • Stalls:  Some stall entrances are very predictable and actually very well modeled.  Others are a tad odd.  It seems that any stall can result in a flat spin (belly down)... even if the stall occured while you were inverted.  Other than that, I think the stalls are modelled quite well (at least as far as departure goes).
  • High Speed handling:  Way off.  There is no difference in a planes handling from 200 to 500.  Everything seems the same.
  • Low Speed handling:  This is a hard one.  I am having difficulty getting a feel for the plane going into low speed scenarios.  It almost seems like there is some kind of "low speed handling on" switch that occurs... never when I am looking at the digital speed readout.
Graphics:
  • Cockpit: One of the best I've seen.  The stick in the cockpit responding to your joystick movements is a neat touch.  I do find the forward view a bit restricting as far as reading guages goes.  The Il-2 makes must have had this come up... for there is a digital speed indicator and altimeter as well as a digital compass to feed you that info.  I also think that the cross-supports are too view restrictive in an environment where you aren't allowed to move your head at all.
  • Enemy Aircraft:  Modeled much larger than I've seen in other sims.  I really like this aspect of them.  Kudos to the team for this.
  • Terrain:  This one is very much a mixed bag.  I was flying along using the map and decided to check out a nearby town.  I flew over it at about 7k and had to rely on the texture mapping looking a tad bit different to tell me it was there.  I got below 5k and some structures started to pop into view.  The town looked nice, but you had to be right on top of it to see it.  


The tree-lines fall into the same category.  It is cool, though, to see an enemy bail and his chute disappear into the forrest.
  • Low level flight:  The bitmap overlay really adds to the velocity experience down low.  This is quite similar to WW2OL's low level graphics and HTC's beta graphics.  That cool feature is more than made up for by the inability to determine your altitude at low speeds in relation to the ground.  I find this to be one of the most frustrating aspects of this game.
  • Muzzle Flash:  This seems to be a sticky point for many.. I don't really have a problem with it.  I don't know if it is more or less realistic than any other sim and could simply adjust.  The same applies to tracers
  • Framerate:  Its awesome... but there are problems.  When I first loaded the game I went whole hog and set it up for 1600x1200x32 and started to fly.  The FPS stayed extremely smooth, but my controller response was abysmal.  The plane was virtually uncontrolable.  Setting the display to 1024x768x32 solved that problem quickly.


Using the "Quick Mission" planner showed another small issue.  The game does not start the mission with all aircraft at once... it ads them.  I get a major stutter as it adds each flight.  This would suck in multiplayer big time.

Another note here... I have to play the game in OpenGL.  If I attempt to play in Direct3d, the framerate is around 1 FPS.[/list]

Damage Model:
  • On "The Enemy":  Seems there needs to be quite a bit of work here.  Maybe the engine cowlings (on bombers) and props were able to withstand several hundred rounds of .50 calibre fire, but I don't think so.  Targetting any other part of the bombers issues neat little shrapnel droppings, but little else.  The big gun on the P-39 is another story.  Anything it hits it tears off.  Though, it has the uncanny ability to stop after it hits an elevator and not do any damage to parts on the other side of it.
  • In your plane:  I'm going to reserve this one for a later time.  Right now, this is somewhat of a sore spot with me too.  Whatever they are doing here just doesn't seem to be working... but I need to find a way to express that.
Summary:

For a beta, this game is in excellent shape.  Hell... this free version kicks bellybutton all over the last WW2 game I bought.  The graphics set a new standard in gaming, but they are system tasking.

The flight model sets a new standard in gaming too.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite live up to sim standards.  There needs to be major overhauls here to bridge that gap.  Unfortunately, in most boxed sims, that gap is usually too big :(  I'm hoping that people stop arguing over who's data is right and realize that Il-2 doesn't match any of the numbers.  600 in level flight in a P-39?  No compression?  Instant acceleration?  Sigh.

The gunnery model is a mixed bag.  I don't think the tracers are visible enough, but the muzzle flash is too visible.  I can deal with this aspect of things though and don't see it as a major issue.  I do question the modeling of .50 cal AP rounds, but that's a difficult one to seriously argue so I might as well just leave it at that.

This game really has some things to offer.  They've moved some aspects of things far enough ahead that they will be getting my money when the game is released.  How long it stays on my hard drive remains to be seen.  The Il-2 developers are going to have to put it into HTC development mode to keep me interested.  I wonder if they can or will do that?

AKDejaVU

Offline Staga

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2001, 01:25:00 PM »
Im not sure but my guess is those speeds are in Kmh, not Mph.

Offline Staga

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »
What I like is there's no stall-horn. When you stall you better hope you got enough alt. Got some nasty stalls in 109 and P-39...

Take-offs and landings are harder than in AH. In AH you can drop your plane to runway and stop it but in Il-2 I need to land the plane very smoothly and use enginepower and rudder to keep plane in runway. Only way to steer your plane is use rudder and throttle. Not sure if there are brakes for left and right gear ?
Low speed handling looks quite hard: I worked 15 minutes to kill a I-16 rata. That sure was fun  :D

Buff guns have quite nice firepower: Il-2's gunners burst from one mg ripped my left wing away. Just like 2-4 .50cals mgs in AH.

Graphics are just great, Lots of little nyances.
Sounds are great; Gotta love that doppler-effect. Sometimes I just cut the throttle to hear that (Blowers?) whistle  :)
(Dunno if its accurate but it sure rocks  :D)

FM: I'll wait if I see some of those documents from Tsagi etc 'cause I know russians tested planes they captured and if they say plane XX roll-rate was YYY degrees/sec I have no reason not to believe.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2001, 02:30:00 PM »
Quote
Im not sure but my guess is those speeds are in Kmh, not Mph.

Ah.. ugly American rears its head.  This is entirely probable.

Frankly, it hadn't occured to me because when the plane is at 180, it rolls at increadible rates.  Pretty amazing when that translates to 120 mph.

AKDejaVu

Offline Tuomio

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »
p-39 roll rate was too high and will be adjusted from 2,2 secs to 3,9. It was devs mistake. edit: dont remember the altitude of those numbers

But id like to see atleast the low and very high speed rollrates checked. Theres no 50lbs stick force limit on pilot, so expect to have good dive pullouts etc. with planes, that dont do that in AH. Its btw meant to be that way, he (Oleg) explained it very well in simHQ bb.

The 50 cal thing maybe due to the fact, that il-2 simulates hit angles and velocity impact  of the bullets versus the armour of spot being hit.
So if you hit something very steep angled surface with lightweight bullet, the bullets can ricochet. My experience is with german MG:s, that if you shoot the enemy with them on good angle, it will deal lots of damage to him.
The buffs overall can take lots of punishment even from 20mm:s in il-2, but the higher calibers have always resulted to critical damage. I see that only as a pro, no 7x50cals=wing removal stuff..  :)

Oh, and the crew abandons their plane if they get too shook up. Eg. il-2:s pilots often bail out if you kill their tail guner, seen samekind of behavior with buffs.

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Tuomio ]

Offline Fishu

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2001, 04:00:00 PM »
Staga,

I've noticed that too and also Otto gunner is superb marksman.
I watched my Il-2's gunner once shoot at 109 flying to 8 oclock, heading away and tail gunner just kept hitting it and yet fairly far distance.
but it was dumbfound with another 109 and didn't even consider shooting it.

Another funny thing was that when I throttled to stall speed, another 109 was now aborting its attacks and flying past, then again preparing for new attack.

Power of those peashot otto bullets seems quite good too...
Heh.. they can drop IL-2's fairly easy.

Offline Staga

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2001, 04:24:00 PM »
Heh Airacobra have some nasty tricks to show to the pilot if he don't keep enough speed. I set up a fight against 109s and noticed if I keep speed up its actually quite nice plane in low altitudes (even without using its rollrate).
It looks like 109 AI-pilots are trying to drag fight to higher alts ? If so then it looks like AI-pilots are using the strenghts of their planes like in RL and not like in some other boxed sims.

I can't wait 'till I got a chance to try that I-16; I was having hard time when I chased it about 10-15minutes.I couldn't out-turn it so I had to extend, grab alt and come back with more speed and alt  :)

If there's still someone who hasn't download that demo yet go and get it; Its worth of it!

Offline Russian

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2001, 08:26:00 PM »
Finally some one opened their mind. Come one everyone else, just clear your mind of this NASA graphs and go man-o-man vs I-16. Turn everything on max realism and go down low at 750 meters.
  :D   ;)   :p   :)   :cool:

Offline juzz

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2001, 09:02:00 PM »
I was surprised when I managed to out-turn an "ace" I-16 in a Bf 109G-2, using 80% power and "combat" flap setting...  :eek:

Offline Russian

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2001, 11:24:00 PM »
I see what you mean, In that case....... STOP USING FLAPS CHEATER!!!  :)

I didn't notice that before. New Demo should be released soon. We'll see what changed in it.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2001, 11:43:00 PM »
Quote
It looks like 109 AI-pilots are trying to drag fight to higher alts ? If so then it looks like AI-pilots are using the strenghts of their planes like in RL and not like in some other boxed sims.

I thought this too... then noticed that the P-39 AI flies exactly the same way.

AKDejaVu

Offline capt. apathy

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2001, 12:13:00 AM »
I don't know much about rl vs. sim performance (other than that the rudders seem way to strong at slow speed) so I cant argue performance modeling one way or the other.
But the FM is challenging and fun.

And man what a beautiful sim.  I love the graphics & sound immersion. I like the dirty and broken glass after hits or near flack hits. I took hits from ack this morning and I had holes through both sides of the cockpit glass, the windshield almost completely covered in oil from the round that tore up the dash and hit the engine.

Personally I wouldn't be able to tell you if a plane was modeled accurately no matter how big the stack of documents you show me is. But I do know what I like and my first impression after 1 day with the demo is this game rocks.

Offline Russian

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2001, 12:22:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by juzz:
I was surprised when I managed to out-turn an "ace" I-16 in a Bf 109G-2, using 80% power and "combat" flap setting...   :eek:

OK try taking 109 on ace vs P39. I can only win if AI crashed into ground. My strutagy is to stay low and when 109 starts climing try to quickly bring him down with cannon. If I stay too long on him I stall and crash...

Any one has better stratagy?

Offline Sorrow[S=A]

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2001, 01:04:00 AM »
Deja- one quick question:

Where are you getting a plane with .50 cal AP ammo to shoot at other planes with?

Only calibers that high that I know of as a beta tester are the 12.7mm pods on the Mig-3. The P-39 has a pair? maybe, but also has rifle calibre so it's impossible to tell what is hitting unless you see the tracer colour.

Offline Sorrow[S=A]

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Il-2... first impressions
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2001, 01:08:00 AM »
Juzz- was that in one turn or a sustained turn?

also-I am not sure where the exact beta version the demo came out of but the planes only got propwash figures right for flick rolls recently. In this case the I-16 has a wonderfull turn but the AI tends to be leary of turning to hard in case it snap rolls especially at low speeds. In the 109 I have abused the flaps to crank around at low speeds for kills but usually found it just to hard to hit the bastards at those situations.