I have one comment for all of you non americans

[AG Sachsenberg]

If you so much as say toejam about the movie Pearl Harbor, god rest your soul the next time we bail you out when someone attacks your ass.  I was sitting in a bar tonight with 6 WW2 veterans, and you know what the one thing they said they despised the most?  

Never recieving Recognition for saving our "allies" tulips in WW2.  Seems they had a  certain arrogance once we entered the war.  And if you want their names I will give you there phone numbers.  I am very forunate that I can speak with these individuals that served "OUR" country to fight "YOUR" war.  I have reserved my anger towards the postings I see in here.

I am very sympathetic towards the fins for they kicked bellybutton with the numbers they fielded against the russians.  Say whatever you want about our movie industry , but at least they are showing a movie about how the US changed history.  

Sometimes I wish the countries that we helped would sit back and say you know if it wasn't for them our lives might not be so good right now.  France should be kissing our tulips right now.  Britain you are a close second.  This is meant as no disrespect.  But from what I have seen many lack the respect our country gave them for their freedoms today.  

Judge as you want, pull your history book out.  You cannot state the US did not bail you out.  Wr will always be there for the lesser country.  I am sure you little carpet monkeys are digging thru your novels of books trying to find a plausible account of the "BAD USA".  

Last statement:  

Grab your ankles and kiss your ass, when the US decides to not help you out.

[paintmaw]

God Bless America  ,

<S> I couldn't have said it better Sturm

[straffo]

Generalisation again at work ...

[MrSiD]

Excuse me, but can someone explain what the movie 'Pearl Harbour' has to do with war and reality?

I haven't had the chance to see the movie, but when I do (and if it sucks) I will give out my opinnion on it for sure.

All I'm asking is that are you sure you're not confusing movies to reality now?

Hollywood has produced a few good movies and even more utter crap. I'm hoping the movie you mentioned has not been ruined by typical hollywood cliches:

1) Excessive use of special effects while forgetting the storytelling

2) Politically correctly placing minorities in situations where they could NOT have been during the political situation of the time..

3) Romanticising the war

4) Making a forced happy ending even if it kills the whole idea and atmosphere of the movie (just to please the testing audience)

If Pearl Harbour manages to evade those hollywood attractions, it will have potential to be a very good movie no doubt.

[StSanta]

What sid said

Don't let your patriotism and love of freedom get in the way of our love of expressing our views about MOVIES.



------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Nashwan]

AG Sachsenberg, let me get this straight.
The US joins the war late, after it is attacked by the Axis. It then expects the countries that fought from the start to "kiss it's arse"
How about this. The US should kiss Britain's arse for defending it from the Nazi's when the US was incapable of fighting them in 1940 and 41? The US should kiss Britains arse for being the only country (with the commonwealth) that fought alone against the Nazi's when certain other countries were incapable or unwilling to do so.
The US did not enter the war to save anybody. At the time when Europe really needed saving, in 1940, the US did not enter the war. At the one point when Britain was in any real danger, summer 1940, the US did not enter the war. When the USSR was in danger in summer and autumn 1941, the US did not enter the war. In fact, the US only entered "our" war when they were attacked by first Japan, then Germany.

 

Judge as you want, pull your history book out. You cannot state the US did not bail you out.

The US contribution to the British war effort prior to 1941 was negligible. By that date, Britain had already beaten off a German invasion attempt. The Germans never came close again, and wouldn't have even without US involvement. Without the US the war would have lasted longer, and more people would have died. The end result would have been the same.

Thank you America for doing your part in the war. Thank you for fighting for all our freedom. How about some thanks from Americans for Britains contribution, for the Britons who died for YOUR freedom?

[juzz]

Maybe Hollywood should show some respect to the Allies of the US in it's recent war movies...  

[blur]

Arguing over events that occurred sixty years ago is dysfunctional in the extreme. Move on.

[Swoop]

Forget it lads, the world is full of loud mouth yanks who seem to think they are the saviours of us all.  Ya can't change their minds so don't bother trying.  Just be thankful that there's an equal amount of sensibile Americans.....um, fairly sensible that is.

 

[StSanta]

Hm, well it has to be said that even though the Americans weren't officially in the war, the Soviets and britain would have been defeated had it not been for the supplies coming from the USA.

Nash does have some valid points though, if seen from the same light as the "we saved your tulips and are all altruistic and toejame" philosophy posts  .

------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Tac]

not to mention that it was the British that tought the US industry how to organize and mass produce war material en masse. That was a VITAL advisory effort that made the US industry THE best war winning weapon.

The way I see it, the Allies owe the US for being the weapon that ended the war (albeit a weapon that came into being only after it, itself was attacked), and the US owes the other allied nations the fact that they held on ALONE for so long before that. If the Axis had taken Europe and the Pacific before the US entered the war, the US would without a doubt have fallen to the Axis within a few years. The US was in no position whatsoever to fight a mechanized army before it was forced into the war.. and without having time to arm itself and build its armed forces.

Imo, the one thing I believe the world really owes the US is taking over financial responsability of the reconstruction effort. Had this not be done, we would be in WW4 by now. The cycle of history was broken by that fact alone.

[Smut]

Two words for you dude..."Lend Lease".

Now find someone in your country that actually lived through the war and ask them where all their fuel came from during the war (including most of the gas used by the RAF during BoB).

Years ago, I was a young american sailor on liberty in London. Several of us were eating lunch (in uniform) when an older gent made his way to our table.

"Thank you" he told us.

Turns out he served in the merchant marine during the war. He knew the truth. He told some great stories. Had two ships torpedoed out from under him. He was old and frail (this was the mid 80's) and missing most of his teeth, but we ended up spending most of the rest of that day just talking to him.

Too bad you never learned your own history. Shame on you.

Go study your own history before you come here casting stones. Your points are simply wrong. I suggest you start with some of Winston Churchill's (hope I spelled his name right) writings from the time.

-Smut

   

Originally posted by Nashwan:

The US did not enter the war to save anybody. At the time when Europe really needed saving, in 1940, the US did not enter the war. At the one point when Britain was in any real danger, summer 1940, the US did not enter the war. When the USSR was in danger in summer and autumn 1941, the US did not enter the war. In fact, the US only entered "our" war when they were attacked by first Japan, then Germany.

The US contribution to the British war effort prior to 1941 was negligible. By that date, Britain had already beaten off a German invasion attempt. The Germans never came close again, and wouldn't have even without US involvement. Without the US the war would have lasted longer, and more people would have died. The end result would have been the same.

[This message has been edited by Smut (edited 05-12-2001).]

[R4M]

Nah, I just want to make you think about one thing, dude:

USA is --NOT-- the center of the Universe. Nor now, nor in the past, nor (hopefully and may god hear this) in the future.

 It is a fine place,afine nation, with some fine people and some bad people, just as everywhere else. With beautiful places, and not so beautiful places. just as everywhere else. And with great things in your past, and with shameful things too...just as any other nation.

Nothing special about it. Many nations have had their "greatness" time, and that didnt made them the center of the universe.

Maybe someday you will understand it. There's still hope

 

[Udie]

Let's not forget about the 50 years after WW2 too  

[Dowding]

If anyone is interested in the origins of Sturm's apoplectic outburst, I suggest you read the thread 'Pearl Harbour Movie'. But I should think no one would be really that interested.

It seems Hollywood is above criticism especially when it makes films about WW2.

Sturm, I'll think you'll find most Europeans are grateful for the part the US played in liberating Europe. It doesn't need stating and it doesn't mean that forever more we should never criticise anything about something as transient as the Hollywood film industry. You are not only a joke, but you also belittle the achievements of the US - as if those that died would give a damn about Hollywood!?! So take your simpering, over-sentimental, misplaced vitriol and ever so quietly piss off.

Posts such as yours only serve to sow ill feeling where there need not be any; you piss on the graves of the British and Commonwealth men and women who gave their lives for the two years before the US even entered the war, by not even recognising their sacrifce to keep the world free. And then you complain of a non-recognition of the US sacrifice?!! How very, very ironic.

Regarding the US's position in 1939 - it had no real choice but to 'wait and see' - Great Britain HAD to show that it could stand on its own two feet. But it did and then the US made a deeply noble move by coming to our aid. But how could it let a force such as Nazism exist in the world? It couldn't and it didn't.

And if anything 'saved' Great Britain it was the damned channel. Without that the Wehrmacht would have been eating scones and tea at Buckingham Palace lend-lease or not.

I'm glad most Americans aren't as myopic as yourself or, for that matter, so vain.

Sturm's IQ is 171.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 05-12-2001).]