Author Topic: Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire  (Read 2859 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2006, 09:27:44 PM »
I expected you guys to pick up on it, but Drediock missing the point entirely is amazing.  Did not expect that out of him.


Think to yourselves for a moment.  Is Hezbollah nasty enough to force people to stay in a building til it collapses?  Is Hezbollah nasty enough to actually stage the entire scene?
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Offline Donzo

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #91 on: July 30, 2006, 09:31:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I expected you guys to pick up on it, but Drediock missing the point entirely is amazing.  Did not expect that out of him.


Think to yourselves for a moment.  Is Hezbollah nasty enough to force people to stay in a building til it collapses?  Is Hezbollah nasty enough to actually stage the entire scene?


Yes and Yes

Offline Maverick

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2006, 09:31:19 PM »
Dred,

Nice option. Your solution to stop hezbollah is to engage in widespread house to house fighting. The boots on the ground strategy.

It sounds nice, in theory, but think how do you kill or remove the hezbollah from inside an apartment bulding? Oh and by the way, they didn't let the occupants leave. What are you going to do now? Don't forget that you will be receiving fire and explosive rounds during this operation.

Do you go in with pistols or do you do what the past experiance of heavy urban warfare has tought, bring down the building by shooting heavy munitions into it?

How many divisions are you going to sacrifice in this operation of trying to go through a fortified city?

Just curious here. You set the standard, how are ya going to do it as "boots on the ground" really isn't a strategy.
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Offline xrtoronto

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2006, 09:36:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
You set the standard, how are ya going to do it as "boots on the ground" really isn't a strategy.


How about in a similar way the US servicemen are on foot in Baghdad? It's a very high cost to pay, but you are doing it.

Offline Donzo

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2006, 09:36:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
For those advocating a multinational force with clearance to fully engage, get it out of your head.

Probably the last time that happened under the UN aegis was in Korea.

It is simply NOT going to happen in Lebanon. Any country that sent troops to Lebanon with full clearance to engage is going to end up fighting Hezbollah in non-stop engagements. That leads to the rest of the Arabs hating the countries involved. Think "Jihad".

All the countries with enough military capability for such a mission have significantly large muslim populations. As a result there will be no sand, grit or will to get such a job done.

Ain't            Gonna          Happen.    EVER.

So, forget it. Try to think up something else.


Nope it never will.  The only thing the UN is capable of doing is drafting up some do-nothing resolution.

Rwanda, Sudan...Where was/is the UN?

Offline Elfie

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2006, 09:42:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Funny, isn't it XRT, that it is now being reported that the building collapsed [SIZE=8]8 ****ING HOURS[/SIZE] after it was hit.

Figure that one out.


Link?
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Offline Maverick

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2006, 09:52:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by xrtoronto
How about in a similar way the US servicemen are on foot in Baghdad? It's a very high cost to pay, but you are doing it.


Not quite toronto. The situation in Baghdad is less fortified than what is going on in Lebanon. There are also fewer forces for a fixed static combat than what hezbollah is reported to be fielding.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2006, 09:56:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Link?


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html
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Offline Elfie

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2006, 10:15:02 PM »
Thanks.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2006, 10:22:11 PM »
To all of you with the wonderful and brilliant solution of "putting boots on the ground", who will be so enlightened as to write up a simply marvelous set of "rules of engagement", to reduce civilian casualties, whilst engaging a group that seeks to maximize civilian casualties (on BOTH sides), for propoganda purposes, you should volunteer to go join those "boots on the ground". Why? Because you seem so willing to send a bunch of soldiers to DIE on a mission you write up with impossible standards that no soldier can live up to and expect to have a remote chance of surviving.

The FACT is that the minute a group of Israeli soldiers is pinned down and getting shot to pieces by Hezbollah terrorists hiding in a building full of civilians, you will curse those Israeli soldiers for returning fire and killing some of those civilians just EXACTLY like you curse Israeli pilots and artillery men now. The only difference will be the number of dead Israelis. Of course, maybe more dead Israelis to make the losses even will satisfy you. But I doubt it.

How hard is it to grasp that Hezbollah hides behind civilians and allows them to be killed, and in fact WANTS them to be killed, when the Israelis use aircraft, or when they use artillery? And how hard is it to grasp that they'll hide behind civilians and allow them to be killed, and be happy about them being killed, when Israeli infantry shows up?

There will only be TWO differences. The dead Lebanese civilians will have bullet holes in them mostly, rather than shrapnel and blast injuries, but they'll be just as DEAD. There'll just be more dead Israelis, which is what it appears some people seem to want.
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Offline Excel1

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #100 on: July 30, 2006, 10:33:51 PM »
Quote
Israel isnt killing indiscriminately


Yes they are

They are treating southern Lebanon as a free fire zone

Offline Black Sheep

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2006, 10:46:22 PM »
NO DOUBT this amazing news comes from IDF general HOURS after that source to save face and job and neck. With all these state of the art weapons we been feeding Israel, they sure have an extremely hard time putting them on targets huh?

"Duh, whats that in the TV screen there? I can't tell, it's either a MLRS or a 3 story building disguised as one."

Offline DREDIOCK

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2006, 12:34:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
 Why is Israel made out to be the bad guy?


Actually I see both sides as being the bad guy.

Like I said. Two bratty kids throwing a tempertantrum with deadly consequences.

Someone a few posts ago said "Hezbollah started it with..."

And someone on the otherside could counter with and Ireal did that before"

And someone would mentiuon something about what someone else did before that.
And back and forth it could go.

Its at the point where it no longer matters who started what.
They both need to stop.
Or they BOTH need to be stopped

I put forth my solutions.
None of which will ever be carried out.

But they are  the only ones wich will ever work
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2006, 12:37:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
For those advocating a multinational force with clearance to fully engage, get it out of your head.

Probably the last time that happened under the UN aegis was in Korea.

It is simply NOT going to happen in Lebanon. Any country that sent troops to Lebanon with full clearance to engage is going to end up fighting Hezbollah in non-stop engagements. That leads to the rest of the Arabs hating the countries involved. Think "Jihad".

All the countries with enough military capability for such a mission have significantly large muslim populations. As a result there will be no sand, grit or will to get such a job done.

Ain't            Gonna          Happen.    EVER.

So, forget it. Try to think up something else.


Im for it only if thy can fire in both directions
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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Now even Condolezza Rice has called for a cease-fire
« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2006, 12:46:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Dred,

Nice option. Your solution to stop hezbollah is to engage in widespread house to house fighting. The boots on the ground strategy.

It sounds nice, in theory, but think how do you kill or remove the hezbollah from inside an apartment bulding? Oh and by the way, they didn't let the occupants leave. What are you going to do now? Don't forget that you will be receiving fire and explosive rounds during this operation.

Do you go in with pistols or do you do what the past experiance of heavy urban warfare has tought, bring down the building by shooting heavy munitions into it?

How many divisions are you going to sacrifice in this operation of trying to go through a fortified city?

Just curious here. You set the standard, how are ya going to do it as "boots on the ground" really isn't a strategy.


Typically in that Heavy urban warfare environment the great deal of the population has already evacuated. So bringing down the building with heavy fire is the best possible option.

In areas where there are large numbers of civilians or innocents (non combatants) Bringing down entire buildings is a really really bad ida.
so yes, you have to go street by street,building to building, room to room. WWII style
Yes there will be some collateral damage. In war there always are.
 But far less then if you bring entire buildings down with non combatants in them simply to get a few badguys

and yes you will loose more of your own men that way. But if you arent prepaired to loose men. Then you shouldnt be willing to conduct military operations to begin with

There is another option.
Surround the town, cut off all supplies. Absorb whatever strikes they try to send out and starve them out.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty