Author Topic: legalize all drugs... (Read 1955 times)

Jackal1 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:29:27 AM »

Don`t think it will ever happen.
We invented the drug trade and the routes to the U.S. for the most part.
At one time, not sure now, drug trade was the #2 money producer here.
Noone is going to take a dump in their own bowl of Wheaties.

lukster · « **Reply #31 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:32:27 AM »

Something else to consider. If there are no laws regarding drugs what happens to what are currently prescription drugs? No prescription will be required for any substance which means a lot of people will be self medicating and I don't mean with what are now illegal drugs.

lazs2 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 27, 2006, 09:52:12 AM »

I agree... it is far to profitable and it gives far too much power to the government for the "war on drugs" to ever end.

luckster... what perscription drugs will people be self medicating with? I will still take the amount of amoxicillan that the doctror prescribes say.

It is only the mind altering drugs that will be abused. And... they are allready. People abuse their perscriptions now on a regular basis.

You either listen to the doctor or not.

The real good people that are at risk are those with chronic pain of some kind... they are a different animal. They will become addicts simply because of the pain but... they pretty much do now anyway.

lazs

Dago · « **Reply #33 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:03:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
And dago.. you spent a lot of time in amsterdam? Have you spent a lot of time in our big cities where a lot of tourists go?

lazs

Yeah, spent a fair amount of time in Amsterdam.

Yes, I have been to a whole bunch of our larger cities (over 50 of the biggest ones). Plus, I grew up in the Gary Indiana area, a really fun area where I was between Gary and the south side of Chicago. Am familiar with the whole package, not just where tourists wear fannypacks.

A good comparison of the advantages of legalizing a vice I could make would be the advent of gambling in Indian casinso here in MN. Back before gambling was easily accessed, you never heard of many problems with gambling and lives ruined.

Now, it seems we are rarely more than 30 minutes from a casino, and it seems almost weekly the newspaper has a report of someone being arrested and prosecuted for embezzlment. It is almost always reported to being done to support a gambling addiction. Not to mention the fools that leave their little children in the car while going into a casino for some fun.

Yeah, legalizing gambling sure worked out well, for a few sinster folks and the politicians they bought. I am sure legalizing drugs would be just as happy. Imagine the lives ruined if drugs were easily procurred. Really bright idea.

WhiteHawk · « **Reply #34 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:20:34 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... first of all... if getting the government out of your life and making it smaller is considered "leftie"... then call me leftie... I allready went through all this decades ago with the hippies who thought that me being a biker with long hair made me one of them.

lazs

I feel your pain. I was called a leftist liberal for criticizing the Bush administrations warrentless spy program. Thats the most intrusive govt program in the history of this nation. Sometimes i think people just throw those terms around in order to avoid having to think through a counter argument. I apologize.

lukster · « **Reply #35 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:25:03 AM »

Lazs, without laws to regulate drugs anyone should be able to maket their own cheaper version of your current prescription drug. While this might have an added benefit of bringing all drug prices down it will no doubt lead to quality problems and self medication.

I don't believe you can separate what are now illegal drugs and those that are prescribed if you legalize all drugs. They then become the same. I'm not sure that this would be a bad thing but we definitely need to consider all of the ramifications.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:38:18 AM »

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Originally posted by Vulcan
And the same goes for smoking weed. From growing the stuff to the users, its an addiction, it does brain damage, its been proven to increase the likelyhood of psychosis in teens (Swedish study).

To hold marijuana up as a victimless crime is either extremely naive or blatant one eyed-ness.

The same goes for cigarettes and alcohol. The difference is that people have the choice to use it if they want. Err, Adults that is.

Any body under 18 caught using any of that should be whipped.

mora · « **Reply #37 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:41:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
Lazs, without laws to regulate drugs anyone should be able to maket their own cheaper version of your current prescription drug. While this might have an added benefit of bringing all drug prices down it will no doubt lead to quality problems and self medication.

Of course you couldn't manufacture patented drugs without a licence, just as you can't make and sell bootleg cd's legally.

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:59:46 AM »

dago.. I don't think you can have a direct comparisson with drugs vs gambling... they may both be "vices" but that is where it ends.

A better way to compare is apples and apples... say alcohol and other drugs.

We also have examples of what happens when drugs are prohibited..

Soooo.. the grand experiment with prohibition.... That didn't work out so well now did it? It has been said that drinking actually increased. Most addicts, given the chance, will choose alcohol as a drug of choice or at least as part of their addiction.... no drug is worse.

Chair... I really don't care what political bent people think I am.... funky says I am a neocon and a fascist. It is just amusing to see their confusion when I don't fit their category down the line.

lazs

lukster · « **Reply #39 on:** August 27, 2006, 11:09:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mora
Of course you couldn't manufacture patented drugs without a licence, just as you can't make and sell bootleg cd's legally.

There are many generic drugs often substituted for name brands legally. Of course legality does not prevent there being many bootlegged cd's sold.

This brings up another possibly intersting topic. We might be trading one form of government control in the form of drug use prevention for drug patent protection. If crack becomes legal who will own the patent? How far will the government go to protect it?

If the government doesn't actively protect patents on drugs like crack or ecstacy by going after the dealers of home made patent violating drugs what impact might that have on our non drug related patents?

eskimo2 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 27, 2006, 11:27:35 AM »

Here’s how I see it; suppose that an urban city has 900 addicts (I’m totally making all numbers up here, just pay attention to the concepts). In the next few years:

Of those addicts: 300 will spend significant time in jail for committing crimes to support their addictions, 300 more will eventually die from an OD, car crash or whatever and the last 300 will recover and go on with life after being admitted to a rehab center or going cold turkey. – All of these folks got themselves into their own messes.

To support their habits there might be 90 local drug gang members/dealers; almost all of whom will eventually either be killed or spend most of their lives in jail. – All of these folks got themselves into their own messes.

Collateral damage by gang bangers will take out 9 innocent bystanders, some of whom are children. - None of these folks did anything to bring such fate upon themselves (besides living in the wrong place).

18,000 citizens will be the victims of theft crimes by addicts in search of cash or loot to support their habits. - None of these folks did anything to bring such fate upon themselves.

9 citizens will die during theft crimes turned violent by addicts in search of cash or loot to support their habits. - None of these folks did anything to bring such fate upon themselves.

18 citizens will be the victims vehicular by addicts driving high. - None of these folks did anything to bring such fate upon themselves.

To deal with all of these folks and their crimes, the city and federal government may employ 30 officers, one of whom might be killed in the line of duty. All of their salaries are paid by tax payers.

***********************************************
Now let’s look at that city if drugs had been legalized and affordable.

I think that this is a massive exaggeration, but let’s suppose that the city now has 1,200 addicts (300 would be law abiding citizens turned addicts once drugs became legal).

Of those addicts: 400 will spend significant time in jail for committing crimes to support their addictions, 400 more will eventually die from an OD, car crash or whatever and the last 400 will recover and go on with life after being admitted to a rehab center or going cold turkey. – All of these folks got themselves into their own messes.

24 citizens will be the victims vehicular by addicts driving high. - None of these folks did anything to bring such fate upon themselves.

12 innocent citizens are alive and well. (6 more citizens die in accidents, but 18 less die during drug related crimes.)

Taxes, security expenses and home insurance rates have dropped.

30 drug cops have other jobs.

90 would be gang bangers have either turned to other crimes, are on welfare or got real jobs.

18,000 people have all of their stuff.

The citizens of the city feel safer; tourism and the economy are better off.

Birddogg · « **Reply #41 on:** August 27, 2006, 11:57:54 AM »

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Originally posted by Dago
I love seeing the wasted lives due to easily available drugs.

Do you think they don't steal there to feed an addiction? If you think any of that is the case, you are mistaken.

Do you love watching people that are more miserable then you, because then it makes your life look less miserable?

Quote

Originally posted by mora
Drugs are not legal in the Netherlands. They do not punish the users like they do in the US, so they are more visible. Hard drugs are less easily avilable than in the US. According to all statistics drug use is much lower there than in the US. According to all statistics crime is much lower there than in the US.

well said.. In US its waaaaay easier to score crack/ meth then little bit of decent weed.

rpm · « **Reply #42 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:14:19 PM »

Lazs, this is the first subject that I can recall you and I being in total agreement. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Seriously, the WOD is a massive resource waste. It's been proven prohibition only causes more crime. Regulate it, set limits and monitor it's production just like alcohol.

lukster · « **Reply #43 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:18:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Lazs, this is the first subject that I can recall you and I being in total agreement. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Seriously, the WOD is a massive resource waste. It's been proven prohibition only causes more crime. Regulate it, set limits and monitor it's production just like alcohol.

Alcohol is but one drug and even after prohibition was repealed the government has been going after bootleggers to this day.

We're not talking about legalizing and regulating one illegal drug here. We're talking about dozens with new ones popping up all of the time. Basically we're talking about deregulation of all drugs, legal and illegal.

rpm · « **Reply #44 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:30:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
Alcohol is but one drug and even after prohibition was repealed the government has been going after bootleggers to this day.

We're not talking about legalizing and regulating one illegal drug here. We're talking about dozens with new ones popping up all of the time. Basically we're talking about deregulation of all drugs, legal and illegal.

True, but the level and amount of crime associated with alcohol went down dramaticly after prohibition was repealed. We are not talking about deregulating drugs, only decriminalizing them.