Author Topic: P-47 Dogfighting  (Read 1422 times)

Offline Widewing

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Re: Re: P-47 Dogfighting
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2006, 08:53:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Yes, slow is better for turn radius.  I tell that the best way to slow down, however, is not to throttle back but to pull harder on the stick.  If you're already at maximum angle of attack and you still need to slow down, then raise the nose above the horizon.  It's called a yo-yo turn (not the same as a yo-yo) and it's what real fighter pilots do when they need to bleed a little speed (except for F-16 pilots, because the F-16 is to jet fighters what the Spitfire is to propeller fighters).


I work my throttle as needed. There are times when a reduction in power is needed to remain in position, or gain position. Throttle is a control, just like the stick and rudder pedals. There are no absolutes, just as there are no two fights that are identical. If you are in a low-level fight in a heavy fighter like the Jug or P-38, pulling off power is required or the extra thrust so increases altitude loss that flying into the ground is a genuine issue.

Pulling harder on the stick is not always the right thing to do. You can quickly get into an accelerated stall and resultant snap-spin or snap-roll.

Schatzi and I just flew about 10-15 duels in the P-47D-25. P-47s are not agile fighters, in the traditional sense. Some maneuvers benefit the Jug better than others, such as nose low turns to retain or even build E, enabling you to hide E and convert it to a positional advantage.

As Bozon mentioned, there are two primary aspects of turn performance that can be exploited one way or another.

Typical Co-E, Co-alt matchups as examples-

Spitfire Mk.V vs the Bf 109F-4: The Spit turns smaller circles, but the 109F has a better turn rate and superior vertical performance. If the 109 can avoid trouble initially, it can prevail by combining turn rate and yo-yos to gain angles. Getting to that point can be a bit problematic for many pilots.

Spitfire Mk.XVI vs F4U-1D: No other fast fighters offer better instantaneous turn rate combined with E bleed and very tight turn radius than the F4Us. With equal pilots, the F4U-1D will get around on the merge quicker than the Spit16. While the Spit offers a better turn rate, its disadvantage in turn radius can lead to the F4U getting a guns solution early in a fight. Like the 109F-4, it must somehow survive long enough to use its vertical performance and turn rate to get control of the fight.

P-47s are very stable fighters that can forgive much. At high speeds it's extremely formidable, but even at low speeds it can catch enemy pilots flatfooted with its excellent handling. As someone else mentioned, a low fuel P-47-40 (with light ammo- 267 rds/gun) can give most fighters a real difficult time, even down low. At high alts, it's the class of the plane set.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Mowaca

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P-47 Dogfighting
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2006, 12:45:12 PM »
Bah,

Balsey beats me in 47 every time...for now. :)

Even having me mentioned in here is a nice ego lift, and I'd be more than willing to offer help to anyone on Jug flying and fighting. I'm on in the mid-day mountain time a bit.

But seriously, Balsey, Shevy, many others are better than I :). I only have a few old tricks that I keep milking. :D

Cheers~

Offline Bubbajj

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P-47 Dogfighting
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2006, 11:56:50 PM »
I ran into Yucca once, he was in a jug and I had an FM2. I figured I had him and tried to bounce him. He danced that thing around like it was a freekin ballerina. Didn't know it was him till I went down in flames. There were two other guys with me, he owned them too. That dude can fly a 47.

Offline Messiah

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P-47 Dogfighting
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2006, 05:01:25 AM »
screw the p47 fly a 109
Messiah(The O.G.)
The Blue Knights