Author Topic: Groundloops (Read 4875 times)

Benny Moore · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:36:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK
A ground loop CAN happen in the game when one does/can not control the plane adequately. After/due to a ground loop the plane's wing tip may hit the ground...

This is true with what aircraft? I've already said that it can happen with the F-4U. But it should happen with all taildragger airplanes.

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK
A LOT depend on whether one locks the tail wheel or not!!!

This is a tangent but an interesting one. There is no tailwheel lock option. You can, of course, pull back on the stick to increase the force on the tailwheel. But regardless of whether this is done or the stick is left swinging free, the groundloops are wrong. As stated, it should happen on any taildragger when the tail is allowed to swing out. In the simulator, the great majority of aircraft do not groundloop when the tail is allowed to swing, even with it is helped with rudder. Again, this is excepting the times when centrifugal force causes the wing to drag, because that is not a prerequisite for a real groundloop.

I just can't believe you people can't see this. Do a little bit of reading on groundloops, maybe ask a real pilot or two (taildragger pilots). If you've got half of a brain, you'll see that proper groundloops are not in the simulator (for the majority of aircraft).

scottydawg · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »

If it's got a tailwheel I can groundloop it.

Major Biggles · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:39:45 PM »

benny, first off, most planes will groundloop if you make em.

secondly, why do you go on, despite the fact people have told you that you're wrong? you're pretty stubborn

evenhaim · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:47:16 PM »

one question for u benny...
at first u "prememtivly defended yourself" but my question is why would u invite people to tear u apart, post nice with confidence (not to much) and people will respect your topic, i see this in a pattern of your posts.

ps i have groundlopped everything from a p51 to a tbm so...

Benny Moore · « **Reply #34 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:48:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Major Biggles
why do you go on, despite the fact people have told you that you're wrong? you're pretty stubborn

Because you kiddies are a bunch of gamers with no clue how a real airplane works. Because countless of pilots and flight instructors (plus the F.A.A. and A.O.P.A.) disagree with you - and agree with me.

No, "most" planes in the simulator won't groundloop even if you make them, excepting the mentioned cased of using brake and dragging a wing.

Quote

Originally posted by evenhaim
at first u "prememtivly defended yourself" but my question is why would u invite people to tear u apart, post nice with confidence (not to much) and people will respect your topic, i see this in a pattern of your posts.

Because for years I have posted on things in which I have real life flying experience (such as the Pacific Fighters stalls, which I was eventually proven right on), and every time some bumclowns who think that they know all about flying because they play games tell me that the game's fine. Sure enough, it happens again in this thread. I say this is how it is in reality, people say, "No, the game's fine." Well, any real taildragger pilot will tell you that the simulator's wrong here.

Major Biggles · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:57:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Because you kiddies are a bunch of gamers with no clue how a real airplane works. Because countless of pilots and flight instructors (plus the F.A.A. and A.O.P.A.) disagree with you - and agree with me.

kiddies, lol.

you take all of this stuff far too seriously. if you want to reprogram the groundloop system in AH, go ahead, do it and send it to HTC. otherwise, shut up about something that isn't broken at all in the first place, and doesn't matter at all anyway...

who honestly cares if a plane doesn't groundloop exactly as it does in real life? does your life revolve around complaining and trying to 'prove developers and gamers wrong'? bit pathetic if you ask me, and dare i say, childish to boot. to think you're calling us kiddies

evenhaim · « **Reply #36 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:01:49 PM »

<---- bows down to major biggles exactly my sentiment

Benny Moore · « **Reply #37 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:03:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Major Biggles
shut up about something that isn't broken at all in the first place, and doesn't matter at all anyway...

It is broken. It doesn't matter to you because you're just a gamer. To real taildragger pilots, groundloops are one of the greatest challenges involved with landing and taxiing.

The A.O.P.A. says: "The ground loop is not as common an occurrence with tricycle-gear aircraft, but anyone who has checked out in tailwheels knows all about it or will shortly. The center of gravity is aft of the landing gear, so the aircraft is directionally unstable on the ground. Get sloppy on landing, correct too slowly with rudder as the aircraft starts to swerve, and become a passenger while centrifugal force takes over and slings the tail sideways. With luck and a slow speed, the outboard wing may not contact the ground. The tricycle gear has done wonders in reducing wind-related accidents, and yet the encounters continue."

The F.A.A. says: "Any difference between the direction the airplane is traveling and the direction it is headed will produce a moment about the pivot point of the wheels, and the airplane will tend to swerve. Loss of directional control may lead to an aggravated, uncontrolled, tight turn on the ground, or a ground loop. The combination of inertia acting on the CG and ground friction of the main wheels resisting it during the ground loop may cause the airplane to tip or lean enough for the outside wingtip to contact the ground, and may even impose a sideward force that could collapse the landing gear. The airplane can ground loop late in the after-landing roll because rudder effectiveness decreases with the decreasing flow of air along the rudder surface as the airplane slows. As the airplane speed decreases and the tailwheel has been lowered to the ground, the steerable tailwheel provides more positive directional control."

moneyguy · « **Reply #38 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:03:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I have no trouble groundlooping anything. It's probably your trim settings.

And I've never heard the word groundloop used by real pilots. I guess groundlooping isn't popular these days.

the term "groundlooping" is used a lot in tail dragger training. every real pilot i know, know's what it means.

Major Biggles · « **Reply #39 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:08:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Benny Moore
It is broken. It doesn't matter to you because you're just a gamer.

The A.O.P.A. says: "The ground loop is not as common an occurrence with tricycle-gear aircraft, but anyone who has checked out in tailwheels knows all about it or will shortly. The center of gravity is aft of the landing gear, so the aircraft is directionally unstable on the ground. Get sloppy on landing, correct too slowly with rudder as the aircraft starts to swerve, and become a passenger while centrifugal force takes over and slings the tail sideways. With luck and a slow speed, the outboard wing may not contact the ground. The tricycle gear has done wonders in reducing wind-related accidents, and yet the encounters continue."

The F.A.A. says: "Any difference between the direction the airplane is traveling and the direction it is headed will produce a moment about the pivot point of the wheels, and the airplane will tend to swerve. Loss of directional control may lead to an aggravated, uncontrolled, tight turn on the ground, or a ground loop. The combination of inertia acting on the CG and ground friction of the main wheels resisting it during the ground loop may cause the airplane to tip or lean enough for the outside wingtip to contact the ground, and may even impose a sideward force that could collapse the landing gear. The airplane can ground loop late in the after-landing roll because rudder effectiveness decreases with the decreasing flow of air along the rudder surface as the airplane slows. As the airplane speed decreases and the tailwheel has been lowered to the ground, the steerable tailwheel provides more positive directional control."

i know all about groundlooping, i know exactly what it is. i just don't care mate, it's not important in a combat sim where you spend 99.99% of your time in the air.

if you want an accurate groundloop in AH, program it for your squealing self, quit b*tchin'. i'm sure HT will use any decent data you can provide, and code for him. put yourself in his position, would you want to waste hours on programming something that will require changes to the already complex physics engine, that isn't important to gameplay, just to please one single freeloader that whines constantly? NO!

now please shut up, you're boring me

Keiler · « **Reply #40 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:09:44 PM »

Benny Moore,
take a 109, trim everything to neutral and push throttle to 100%, lean back and enjoy. Many planes do that, but I know for sure the 109 series and the f4u do it when you dont compensate.

Matt

[edit] dont forget to turn OFF combat trim in flight settings, maybe you forgot to do that.

evenhaim · « **Reply #41 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:09:48 PM »

if you want to fly something more accurate fly flight school sims or fs sims ah2 is a game for people who are looking for a good time and some accuracy r u gonna ace for extreme detail like visible grass or leavs on the runway lol seriously just stick it out and deal with it

hubsonfire · « **Reply #42 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:11:05 PM »

Benny = strega

evenhaim · « **Reply #43 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:11:46 PM »

lmao hubs

Golfer · « **Reply #44 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:11:58 PM »

If ya want to deal with all the things involved with flying:

Preflight
Complex Engine Management
Taxiing
Altitude/Heading holding
Radio Communication
Navigation
Emergencies

go fly an airplane.

Otherwise sit back, relax and have fun.