A New Way Forward In Iraq

[Patches1]

I think the "left" has bent so far left that it is nearly touching my right shoulder.

The "left", in my opinion, seems unable to define itself, and seems leaderless, (unless you count Al Gore {who invented the internet}, John Kerry {who had a plan that he never divulged} and Ted kennedy{who has lived off of his Brothers' reputation for three decades} as leaders), and thus can only "criticize" any action taken by those who dare take a stance on ANY issue. At least Lyndon Johnson took a stance, and stood by it. For him, I have some respect, but he was the last of the "left" for whom I have had any form of respect.

In WWII, in America, the news media was closely watched and censored. Heaven help any journalist who divulged casualty rates as high as 25,000 American to 22,000 Japanese in a period of 35 days without an American Victory! Nor, would the media expouse upon the incarceration of Americans of Japanese heritage into camps as the Nazis did to Europeans of various heritages. No way!

FDR, Truman, JFK, and LBJ were the last of the gunfighters for the left; they were leaders.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by BluKitty
Why would there need to be a coup when Blackwell and the Supreme Court decided the last two elections?

Nothing else need be said about that.


Well, except:

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by oboe
Toad,

Yes, that helped.   Thanks.  

Sabre, thanks for clarifying.     I think we disagree on the role the press played in this particular war, though.   Practically all the mainstream press has been excoriated for not questioning the case for the war in the first place - for bolstering popular support for it from the beginning.   I think I've read numerous accounts of how the mainstream media fell down on the job there.  My misgivings about the press today go much deeper, but I'll save it for another time.    

I think the Left has been much less effective than you guys give it credit for.   In fact I can't think of a single significant impact the Left has had during all of Bush's presidency.   Seems to me like they've been ignored or steamrollered the whole time (prior to 2007).   They've been nothing but whining, simpering, disorganized and incomptetent weaklings.   Now that the ***** is hitting the fan, you guys want to place some blame on them.    I have to chuckle at that, but I find it pathetic at the same time.    This whole thing is Bush and the necons baby.  Even now, all the Left can muster is a non-binding disapproval vote.   Big deal.    

btw I note that Sam Brownback (R), one of Toad's senators, has come out against the troop escalation.    As has Minnesota's Republican senator, Norm Coleman.

FWIW, I don't think Congress can or will stop the escalation or bring the troops home.    I think the Dems think no matter what they do, they will get blamed so its better to make noise but do nothing.   Judging from this board, they might be right.

Just my impressions.

The mainstream press has not been "onboard" for this conflict since a month after they pulled Saddam's statue down in the square.

Further, you seriously underestimate the effects that the media and the bloviating liberals can have on the morale of the enemy. You need to read up on what the North Vietnamese said about that war. Their best weapon was Walter Cronkite and the "useful idiots" of the left, who, no matter how well the U.S. military or South Vietnam performed, no matter how many victories they accomplished, always reported that all was lost.

One other thing. A war can not be run by "committee". You have to have a COMMANDER. If you cannot by legitmate means replace the commander, the best thing you can do is support him.

And yes, it is true, the left, liberals, and some Democrats would send this country down the road towards complete and utter failure and destruction in order to gain power that they have no idea how to use for any decent and proper purpose.

[Sixpence]

The war effort is not what sunk Bush

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Sixpence
The war effort is not what sunk Bush

what was it, then the economy?

of course it was the war - over 3k killed for nothing if you listen to the media and half the posts here ... no support which lead to ever increasing pressure to fight the war on terror like it is a game of dodge ball. You think the dems were voted in for the raise on minimum wage? nope - it was the never ending BAD news from Iraq minus any GOOD news from the region which turned the weak willed away ..

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Sixpence
The war effort is not what sunk Bush

I'd agree with that. I'm very disappointed in Bush. I don't think he's been aggressive enough in the war on terror, both in and out of Iraq.  I don't think he's been tough enough on foreign policy in general. He has not been nearly conservative enough on several issues, like illegal immigration, Social Security, spending (MAJOR issue with me), and tax reform/reduction. I find myself dissappointed in so-called conservatives in general. Bill Frist, who I voted for, has been a big disappointment. He folded on several issues. The biggest problem is tha the alternatives are even worse. The laundry list above is what cost the Republican party as a whole last November. They completely failed to be conservative. So now we have a bunch that is even LESS conservative, and not even close to moderate. True, some of the Democrats won as a moderate alternative to Republicans who did a poor job of being conservative, but as a rule they'll be controlled by those they are "beholdin" to, so they'll be on the left side of moderate.

[oboe]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The mainstream press has not been "onboard" for this conflict since a month after they pulled Saddam's statue down in the square.

Further, you seriously underestimate the effects that the media and the bloviating liberals can have on the morale of the enemy. You need to read up on what the North Vietnamese said about that war. Their best weapon was Walter Cronkite and the "useful idiots" of the left, who, no matter how well the U.S. military or South Vietnam performed, no matter how many victories they accomplished, always reported that all was lost.

One other thing. A war can not be run by "committee". You have to have a COMMANDER. If you cannot by legitmate means replace the commander, the best thing you can do is support him.

 

I don't really follow the mainstream press.    But if what you say is true, it seems to me the public has supported the war far longer than the mainstream press has.   So it follows the mainstream press must not have as much influence on public opinion as you think.

Regarding the commander statement, an honest question.  Did you support President Clinton?    Or were you critical of him?    

And yes, it is true, the left, liberals, and some Democrats would send this country down the road towards complete and utter failure and destruction in order to gain power that they have no idea how to use for any decent and proper purpose.

Can you bring yourself to say the exact same thing about the Right, neoconservatives, and some Republicans, especially after all that has happened in the last 6 years?    I am not asking flippantly - I'm serious.

Torque - thanks for the Charlie Rose link.  I've started watching it but it stops about 1/3 of the way through.   I like CR a lot - his is one of the great, great shows on TV, IMO.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by oboe
I don't really follow the mainstream press.    But if what you say is true, it seems to me the public has supported the war far longer than the mainstream press has.   So it follows the mainstream press must not have as much influence on public opinion as you think.

Regarding the commander statement, an honest question.  Did you support President Clinton?    Or were you critical of him?    



Can you bring yourself to say the exact same thing about the Right, neoconservatives, and some Republicans, especially after all that has happened in the last 6 years?    I am not asking flippantly - I'm serious.

Torque - thanks for the Charlie Rose link.  I've started watching it but it stops about 1/3 of the way through.   I like CR a lot - his is one of the great, great shows on TV, IMO.

I don't remember a WAR that Clinton was involved with. He bailed on Somalia. I guess you could call the Kosovo/Serbia conflicts "wars", and yes I supported him on those conflicts, but did not support him on bailing on Somolia. Would I have supported Clinton in WAR? Yes, I would.

By the way, there's a serious difference between responsible constructive criticism and completely irresponsible and blatant attempts to undermine.

No, I do not think the Right has, is, or was leading the country down the road to failure and destruction, but I'd call them on it if they were. I do call them on any number of failures, see the post in reply to sixpence. I can't figure anything in the last 6 years in particular that I would consider as leading the country to failure and destruction. Have the Republicans in general and Bush in particular been fiscally irresponsible? Hell yes. I think the closest thing you to what you could call taking us down the wrong road would be their failures to push through illegal immigration reform and opening up reasonable oil exploration and drilling. None of that is anything like rolling over for terrorists and sucking up/cowering before Syria, Iran, North Korea, and other countries.

[oboe]

Savage,

We share some areas of concern (spending and illegal immigration, tax reform).    I guess I put a much higher priority on deficit spending and the national debt than  you do - I see it as leading down the road to failure.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by oboe
Savage,

We share some areas of concern (spending and illegal immigration, tax reform).    I guess I put a much higher priority on deficit spending and the national debt than  you do - I see it as leading down the road to failure.

There's no doubt it will lead to a major failure of the economy. That the country may survive. I see the liberals as even worse in this regard, as their intent to raise taxes will actually LOWER revenue, and we know they will do less to control spending, that's a lesson anyone can learn from history. I put a very high priority on fiscal responsibility, probably as high as you do.

But the war on terror (better described as a war on those groups that would commit acts of terror) and foreign policy with regards to Iran, Syria, North Korea, and other countries of a "like mind" is even more important. The failure that will result from cowering and inaction there will not be as  relatively easy to recover from as a major economic failure. Caving in and cowering to the terrorists and the countries that support and harbor them will have results far more catastrophic than the Great Depression.

[lukster]

Originally posted by BluKitty
Many of us, like me, knew occupation of Iraq was a stupid idea in 2002.  They are completly incompentant, except in the area of war profiteering.

This is one big  ....We told you so.  It was a stupid idea from the get go.

We told you so...and I'll tell you agin.  This is another very bad idea.  From a man with a history of bad ideas.

Exactly. When half the country is sitting back the whole time moaning about this whole thing being "a bad idea" what do you expect the enemy to think? It emboldens and empowers them in believing we don't have the will to win.

[lukster]

Bush's biggest mistake was in not realizing we are a country of those who lack ideals, without the foresight or the will to see the war through. Shame on him and us.

[Toad]

Luk...we've become Euros. That's the short version.

[Torque]

oboe, the original site, an interesting concept and very informative.

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/index.php

[Hap]

Oboe, is it your contention that were it not for the press and the left, the war in Iraq would at this time be going substantially better than it is?

Also, do you think that what ever mistakes the Bush administration has made are minor as to the outcome of the war when compared to how the press and the left have damaged the war effort?

Regards,

hap