Author Topic: What is a HO?????? (Read 2104 times)

Hornet33 · « **on:** January 16, 2007, 11:36:08 AM »

OK I have a question here. What do people consider a HO??? I got accused last night of HO'ing someone (no names) and I don't think it was a HO.

First off I want to define what I believe a HO is. 2 planes come into icon range and turn into each other. From 5k out a game of chicken starts where both planes are flying straight towards one anouther and both planes open fire at 1k and try to kill each other.

In that situation I normally do not open fire since it is an obvious HO and is just un cool in my opinion. I can normally avoid the shots from the other plane and then manuver to a gun solution.

Last night however, I was on the outer edge of a furball in an A6M5b. I had just arrived at the fight and was looking at the situation to see what I could do. I rolled up on my right wing, looked down and saw a fellow Knight with a spit on his tail geting ready to pass under me. I rolled inverted and pulled towards the deck and lined myself up for a crossing shot on the spit. He saw me setting him up and he pulled up into me, however I was able to tighten my turn to lead his plane and opened up at 200 as he crossed my nose. Landed several 20mm hits in his cockpit and he blew up. Next thing I know I'm getting pm'd and he's telling me I HO'd him.

Now to my way of thinking, if your already in a turn fight and your manuvering and you all of a sudden end up face to face with a plane and get shot in the face, that's NOT a HO, as neither pilot really had time to set it up that way. It's a quick reaction shot to a sudden target in your sights.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I shouldn't have taken that shot but my fellow Knight got away, I got a kill, and managed to get home with it.

Opinions????

MWL · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:41:20 AM »

I am still looking for the help file that defines all the ways it is proper and improper to 'kill' somebody in this game.

Ignore him. You kilt him and hurt his 'peelings.

Regards,

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:44:51 AM »

If both planes have a 0 angular advantage, i.e. both have a gun solution, then it is a HO. You could probably put in a cushion of say 5 degrees to account for lag. Anything else is a good deflection shot.

What most people complain about is when an opponents only maneuver is to turn nose on to you and fire as you cross. I'm not saying that this isn't a valid tactic but if this is his only maneuver any half way decent pilot will eventually defeat him if he can avoid the face shot.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:44:56 AM »

2 schools of thought on this.

Nose to nose, both have a shot= HO

or

Any shot that is not within 90 degrees of being directly behind the guy= HO

The second one I think is just BS, but, like the collision myths, it's gaining in popularity nevertheless.

Bronk · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:46:27 AM »

Well according to Suave. *snicker*

If you are in front of his 3-9 line you hoed him.*snork*

You should now go back and learn some A..........

Sorry couldn't finish that was to dang funny.

You got the kill in a furball where anything goes.

So just the dummy so it steams him more.

Bronk

Suave · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:55:08 AM »

HO is just another way to say frontal shot. Some people will get their panties all bound up if you call their frontal shot a ho though. Aparently the term ho carries some video game nerd stigma.

Bronk · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:57:35 AM »

HI Suave , where is that navy data sheet?

Bronk

Suave · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2007, 11:59:33 AM »

What are you talking about ?

Bronk · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:00:39 PM »

You said the navy calls 45 degree front quarter shots HOs.
I want to see the documentation.

Bronk

Suave · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:07:00 PM »

So I'm supposed to find it for you?

Do pushups.

See I can tell you what to do on the internet too.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:07:57 PM »

Tough to call anything a HO in a furball. That fact that the guy is in the furball tends to take away from the idea that he is a HO shooter.

To me the HO is the guy in the LA7, N1K, or even Hurri IIc with all the cannon, that lights up his wings 1K or more out and makes no attempt to do anything else. Nose to nose.

Lots of guys will get kills with snapshots as the other guy is trying to pull his nose in on him. The top of the engine, the cockpit and beyond get hit. Sometimes to the guy on the recieving end that can look like a nose to nose shot.

Best advice it to just not worry about it. Folks are going to HO. It's up to you if you want to be one of those folks.

Bronk · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:14:51 PM »

Suave you stated it as fact. The burden of proof is on you.

Ohh I see because you say it it must be true ehh?

So story teller care to provide proof .

Or is the moon made of cheese because i just said so?

Bronk

dtango · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:19:30 PM »

Here's Bob Shaw's definition: "...the forward-quarter (FQ) intercept is one in which the interceptor approaches from the target's forward quarter. A special case of the FQ intercept is the head-on approach, where the interceptor reduces displacement to zero and the two aircraft converge 'beak-to-beak'. "

I posted this in the other "ho" thread...

Some rambling thoughts:

(1) Defining HO's reminds me very much of the definition of ACM. In the USAF ACM has a strict definition and that is used for maneuvers in a 2v1 where aircraft are working in concert. Yet people here use ACM to mean 1v1 maneuvering. So in the same way folks will call Forward Quarter shots HO's.

(2) A face shot is a face shot no matter if you're 0 lead angle off the nose going "beak to beak" or if the shooter has 60 degree lead angle off of the bandit's nose. The target is being shot in the forward quarter.

(3) There's no shame in taking a HO or forward quarter shot. A shot is a shot. The object is to shoot the other guy down. Take what you can get.

(4) Getting a forward quarter shot or HO is independent of your skill in air combat. You might have used all the tactics and maneuvers in the world to get that shot. You might not have.

(5) If I happen to be the one being hit in the front quarter, my plane is the flight path of my advesary's bullets. Whether I like it or not I've maneuverd my plane into a position to get hit in the front quarter either unintentionally or by choice. If I don't like that then I should figure out ways I can stay out of the flight path of the bullets next time!

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

FX1 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:22:09 PM »

When i can shoot you and you can shoot me.

Suave · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2007, 12:22:43 PM »

Thank you dtango.