The German Spitfire

[Krusty]

God, no! You sick puppy Batfink! Why would you sour the palatte with that???

20cc's of Daimler-Benz, STAT!





Aaahhhh... much better.

[Guppy35]

I'll see your 109 and raise with a Spit XII, Griffon IV, clipped wings and 400 on the deck.

[Bruv119]

Bat and Guppy are totally right.

Insult!!!!


Bruv
~S~

[hubsonfire]

It looks like a Ki61 mated with a stuka. How could you compare it to a Spitfire?

[1K3]

Now HERE's the REAL German SPITFIRE:t

This is what H. Goering wished and he got what he wanted.

[B@tfinkV]

woah! looks horrific with a big german motor in the nose.

[1K3]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
woah! looks horrific with a big german motor in the nose.

The motor is DB-605 that came from 109G-6


A Spitfire with a Mercedes Benz engine is the RAF pilot's wet dream:t
A Mercedes Benz engine mated to a (captured) Spitfire airframe is the Luftwaffe pilot's wet dream:t

[storch]

the spitfire is a pretty, dainty thing, the product of a fertile mind but not really a weapon.  in reality both of the primary german fighters were more than a match for the spitfire.  the only reason why the people of the british isles are not speaking in their historical saxon tongue is because of the Americans who stepped in to save your bacon yet again.  prance all you want, the facts remain.

the fact that axis fighters are handicapped in this game is indicative of how truly deadly they were in reality.

if you argue about pilot training, especially towards the latter days of the war then I once again point you to the generous assistance provided by the United States.

carry on with your batfink delusions.

[Bruv119]

Where did you get your facts from storch?

According to your big book of WW2 with pictures??

[macleod01]

Im probarbly wrong here, but I heard somewhere that the only reasons the Americains agreed to send us planesand pilots during the BoB is if Britain gave America her navy WHEN we were defeated. Am I wrong? Plus, also may be wrong, but if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

[streakeagle]

Originally posted by macleod01
if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

It is called "home field advantage" and decisions by high level commanders. Both Spitfires and Bf109s were short range fighters. The Bf109s were hampered by being used as long range escorts and being ordered to fly in formation with the bombers. If the British were so superior, why were they forced to retreat across the channel and wait for the US to enter the war and Russia to sap Nazi power? Even with all the tactical limitations imposed, it was an extremely bad strategic decision on the part of the Nazi high command that cost them the BoB. Had the Luftwaffe not been ordered to divert its bombing efforts away from factories, runways, and radar stations for terror bombing of London, it is entirely possible that the air defenses of Britain would have collapsed completely. At one point, the number of operational Hurricanes and Spitfires with trained pilots dipped dangerously low... then the bombing strategy changed and the Allies got a big break when Britain recovered and won the BoB.

[streakeagle]

If this plane is slow and maneuverable, would it be more accurate to call it the German Hurricane? Tossing aside the inverted gull wing, it seems closer in appearance and performance to a Hurricane than a Spitfire.

Originally posted by 1K3
The Germans were so close to have Spitfire-like planes in their service but the 109 was picked, for political reasons...

The Axis users such as the Spaniard Garcia Pardo had put it, " [He 112] is the Rolls-Royce among aircraft with the wrong engine".

The air war would have been VERY different if they had this plane...




 

[RASTER]

Um, interesting plane but it could still be the same as putting a Lamborgini body on a VW bug.

The Spitfire was a combination of elements. The unique shaped wings were developed from racing which is of coarse where the Spitfire came from. Reginald Mitchell (1895-1937) of the Supermarine Aviation Works in Southampton developed the plane. Their expertise was in racing aircraft and permanently held the Schneider trophy making aircraft which held the speed record for 14 consecutive years forming the basis of the Spitfire embodiment. I believe it was 1931 when Supermarine S6B sustained 407.5 mph to win the international race.

In racing, shape and weight are critical and Mitchell experiemented with emerging new materials and even production techniques. The early Spitfire had  an alloy frame of stress skin construction which allowed it to carry 8 machine guns instead of 4.

The SpitFire was an integrated group of components developed from racing and racing successfully. With the RR engine it become the embodiment of strapping on wings. It's one thing to go fast but its another thing to stay fast as in racing. Allied planes could have gone much faster but they would have been unreliable. I don't think many of the German planes could sustain their high output for long but correct me if I'm wrong.

As an example of German engineering of its day, the ME 262 jet engine was a central combustion chamber which produced more thrust than Whittles circumferential combustion but, the engine was good for only one flight while the less powerful Vampire jet engines are still flying to this day. Todays jet engines are central combustion chambers because the materials available today allow them to function reliably. In the late 1930's the machinery and materials just were not up to it.

The canopy of the 109 has always annoyed me. Perhaps in real life the pilots liked the clunky squared off canopy of the 109 but in simulation the metal separators are a real nuisance but its the way German's designed their stuff.  

RASTER

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by storch
the spitfire is a pretty, dainty thing, the product of a fertile mind but not really a weapon.  in reality both of the primary german fighters were more than a match for the spitfire.  the only reason why the people of the british isles are not speaking in their historical saxon tongue is because of the Americans who stepped in to save your bacon yet again.  prance all you want, the facts remain.

the fact that axis fighters are handicapped in this game is indicative of how truly deadly they were in reality.

if you argue about pilot training, especially towards the latter days of the war then I once again point you to the generous assistance provided by the United States.

carry on with your batfink delusions.

Not the old AH LW conspiracy theory again.

Look on the bright side, if -
We had the XVI at 25lbs boost.
The XIV at 21lbs boost.
A proper Seafire IIc with the Merlin 32
An L III with the Merlin 55M
The return of the old Vc

None of which are rare, unlike some of your LW variants, then you might have something to complain about.

Until then the RAF planeset -
The only perked prop buff in the game
Out of the major 3 planesets the least 1944 versions, and no 1945 versions.
A still perked Spit XIV (with a hosed FM)
One of the most perked planesets throughout the arenas.

And you think your hard done by, lol.

[humble]

Originally posted by Krusty
You forget, though, that they designed the He100 for speed. The record breaker was unarmed, using an experimental engine, and using surface cooling (no drag from a radiator). Even with production changes including retractable radiators under the fuselage, the wing loading was extremely high for the time (higher than the 109), the handling wasn't very good, as it was designed for speed above all (that elusive but coveted world speed record, my how the German aircraft companies fought and bickered for it!).

I don't even think the production models were armed, as there were only 13 made.[edit: 3 D-0s for japan, and 10 for propoganda] None saw combat, as they were only used as a propoganda display.


"In the end this is particular decision is widely regarded as the single seed from which the destruction of the luftwaffe began."

Hrm.. interesting... as I've never heard that before. Ever. From any source.

Most cite the 109 as being the true power behind the LW, and how the BOB was the start of the end.

The model that set the speed record went 416 mph...and yes the preproduction runs were not armed...wing loading was roughly 35lbs/sqf which was on par with the D.520 and roughly 2lbs/sqf heavier then the 109E.

Overall handling for the He100 was just fine, however the plane was plagued by similiar "landing gear" issues as the 109 (track was much wider so issue was more a production one). The Japanese were heavily influenced by the He-100 in the design of the Ki-61. No question the fully armed production model would be slower then the prototype. 628/kmh seems to be the most commonly used number for the fully armed "pre production" models. Still 35mph+ faster then the 109E.

If you look thru the various histories by recognized military aviation historians one of the most common threads for the demise of the luftwaffe is the 109. The germans entered the war with the most experienced pilots, best tactics and arguably the best fighter plane in the world. Yet by 1942 they had lost any true dominance with the introduction of the spitfire IX in the west and the P-39 in the east. By 1943 the luftwaffe was suffering. In Feb 1943 the luftwaffe ran trials at Guidona. They restricted the italian planes to 2600 rpm and 1.3 ATA while letting the german planes run at max settings. All three italian planes equaled or exceeded 109G4 even at reduced settings at alts below 23,000 ft. The Luftwaffe concluded that the G.55 was the best fighter available and immediately undertook steps to explore production using the new DB603. 3 such prototypes were made but the project never went farther, mostly due to production difficulties and possibily politics. This all came from earlier "lobbying" by german pilots who felt the C205 clearly superior the 109 below 23,000 ft.