The German Spitfire

[humble]

Originally posted by Lusche
Never heard such thing before.

Start your search with aviation histories and released "think tank" reports available thru maxwell airforce base (on line). Tremendous amounts of "what if" are always done in preperation for the next "big one". If we view the production pipeline the germans had no true "next generation" of fighters during the midwar period. By 1942 the luftwaffe itself was struggling with this. From a historical perspective the germans were badly overmatched well before the generally perceived "War of attrition" in the latter part of 1944. The fact that they even undertook flight testing of the italian planes indicates just how serious the issue was. If you look at it from a historical perspective the germans are the only major combatant that didnt introduce a new plane design during the critical "mid war" years.

[humble]

Most cite the 109 as being the true power behind the LW, and how the BOB was the start of the end

The true strength of the german luftwaffe lay in the quality of its pilots and tactics. Going back to WW1 the germans had already evolved the concept of the energy fighter vs the "dog fighter"...the 109 was designed with this in mind and was very well suited to this roll. The problem with the 109 (and single biggest reason the germans "lost" the BoB) was its limited range. The plane simply didnt have enough endurance to undertake the task at hand. The single most telling quote from WW2 aviation history is the one on the mustang. Goes something like this....." It's not what the mustang could do, its the fact that it could do it over Berlin that made it special"....

Had the germans had the A6M2 they would have won the BoB (IMO)...

[bozon]

Yes the air war would have been very different had the Germans had this plane. I don't know how well they could have produced it though, since plastic technology was not very advanced and 1:72 size pilots are hard to find.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by bozon
Yes the air war would have been very different had the Germans had this plane. I don't know how well they could have produced it though, since plastic technology was not very advanced and 1:72 size pilots are hard to find.

Think how hard it would have been to shoot down.
Very  small  target.
Bronk

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by macleod01
Im probarbly wrong here, but I heard somewhere that the only reasons the Americains agreed to send us planesand pilots during the BoB is if Britain gave America her navy WHEN we were defeated. Am I wrong? Plus, also may be wrong, but if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

[macleod01]

Cant remember where I hearrd it, I think it was a program on the History Channel, but correct me if Im wrong

[B@tfinkV]

not far off mac!

basically the American government assumed that if the Brits were beaten they would inherit the royal navy.


Churchill got pissed off about this and basically hinted that should the USA let the Brits be overrun he may just hand over the royal navy to the Nazis.


this helped with the American eventual descision to enter the war.

cunning move, Winnie.

[macleod01]

Woot, for once I was almost right about somthing!

[Major Biggles]

Originally posted by macleod01
Im probarbly wrong here, but I heard somewhere that the only reasons the Americains agreed to send us planesand pilots during the BoB is if Britain gave America her navy WHEN we were defeated. Am I wrong? Plus, also may be wrong, but if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

act of god and karma. the germans were far superior, but hitler was a dumbarse, churchill was an inspirational and popular leader, and the british morale never cracked, just soldiered on, got throught the blitz day by day (funnily enough my house was damaged in the blitz, there's a noticable change in brick colour along one wall )


the germans made some bad decisons, the brits made some good ones, and even while heavily outnumbered and outclassed we pulled thorugh, story of the BoB.

[humble]

Originally posted by macleod01
Im probarbly wrong here, but I heard somewhere that the only reasons the Americains agreed to send us planesand pilots during the BoB is if Britain gave America her navy WHEN we were defeated. Am I wrong? Plus, also may be wrong, but if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

You justed ask the question that plays out after every conflict. The primary reasons the germans lost the BoB are as follows....

1) poor primary target selection. The british bombed Berlin (maybe on purpose for this reason??) so Hitler focused on London...instead of eliminating british military infrastructure.

2) Radar, the germans underestimated its impact (so did we at pearl harbor).

3) The limited range of the 109 prevented the germans from maintaining any true air supremacy....this was somewhat counterbalanced by similiar limitations in the spitfire.

The spit/hurricane and 109E were well matched with a slight edge to the 109 overall (IMO). Neither side had planes suitable for the task at hand. The biggest difference given the actual planes in service would have been the P-39C (which would have been in full production had the US been on a war footing.. ). The P-39C totally dominated the 109E in everything but rate of climb. It had the range to form up and take the fight to the french coast and would have decimated bomber formations. The germans wouldnt have been able to contest the P-39's and still perform escort duties to england to to the limited range. Had the Germans had a similiar plane (he-100?) they would have been able to maintain a combat cap significantly longer and then the limited endurance of the spitfire (which was hard pressed already) would have been exposed.

[Major Biggles]

one of the most obvious advantages the germans had to me, was pilot quality. many of the german BoB pilots had served in the spanish civil war, were battle hardened, and had plenty of good quality training. british pilots in the height of the BoB had 7-9 hours flying time total before being chucked into combat, many of those hours were spent just learning how to fly, you had to pick up how to fight as you went along...



as for the blitz, what happened was that a german bombing raid accidentally dropped on civilian districts because they couldn't find their target. in response to this, the brits bombed berlin, with a small force, more a morale booster/breaker than an effective bomber raid, but it enraged hitler, and he moved away from attacking radar and airfield (which were nearly destroyed, another week and england would have been ready to invade), and ordered mass raid on london. the blitz was a cruel dishonourable tactic of a madman, but funnily enough, it saved britain, and gave us enough time to geather the airforce and mount a more coordinated and effective resistance.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by macleod01
Im probarbly wrong here, but I heard somewhere that the only reasons the Americains agreed to send us planesand pilots during the BoB is if Britain gave America her navy WHEN we were defeated. Am I wrong? Plus, also may be wrong, but if the German planes were superiour to the british during BoB, and they had better pilots, How come we won?

Actually I believe we only sent you supplies and materials through the lend-lease program (the lend-lease program was "technically" unconstitutional but no one really cared at that time). I also remember that most pilots came to Britain during the BoB from Canada. Yanks could not come directly from the U.S.

Could be wrong, didn't look it up, just out of memory.

[Xargos]

Americans where told they could loose their US citizenship if they joined the RAF, so the Americans would go to Canada and get a citizenship there and hope they where not caught by the US government.  Those few Americans who joined the Eagle Squadron gave up allot to be there.

[Krusty]

Xargos, that was only when the U.S. was clinging to its veil of neutrality. After Dec 7th 1941 we no longer cared to pretend.

[Xargos]

Guess I should have noted during BoB.