Author Topic: Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?  (Read 5131 times)

Offline daddog

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2007, 03:49:01 PM »
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Daddog great bullet points! I agree 110% with all of it. I'm sorry we missed the B24's in the mission but that would have ended up messing up the formations a touch anyway so I guess with the mission planner the way it is it turned out for the best anyway.
Rgr MGD. I figured you guys had a good reason for it.

Roscoroo, get some glasses. :D

As for turning off formations. I would not like to see that. I think most in my squad, if not all would agree. For example we had a formation of 12 buffs last Sunday. Of the 4 formations, 3 had gunners (Some new players that are checking out our squad). All 12 bombers were shot down in about 2 minutes after a formation of Me-110's found us. IMHO players need the formations.

Mongrels are happy to fly anything, but if formations are turned we would probably not fly any bombers.
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Offline Krusty

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2007, 04:05:08 PM »
Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?

110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.

Other times you just get digested.

Offline GooseAW

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2007, 09:34:09 AM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?

110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.

Other times you just get digested.


Ahh but these 110s had uber pilots...they (the bombers) had no chance at survival.:t

To daddog's defense, there were almost as many 110s as there were bombers, and we had alt. there was 1 higher escort in the area but he died first and didn't seem to even know his bombers were nearby and in trouble.... We lost a couple 110s who had to rtb with damage and that wouldn't have happened if they had approached the bombers correctly.

110s would never have been relegated to a dead 6 attack Krusty. Only patience is required to avoid this, along with the correct approach and a few k alt adv. Why some fighters always go in on a buff's dead 6 I'll never understand. I guess maybe it's easier for them to aim, but likewise, it makes the gunners aim easier. 10, 2, 4, and 8 people!

Again, I would rather have died after finding and fighting the main group than live through the smaller groups we found and never be able to get to the main group.

Offline daddog

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2007, 09:55:15 AM »
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Hate to say this, but maybe your gunners sucked?

110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe... It's very hard to reposition for another attack and usually you fall into a dead-6 attack. Once there, you get chewed up and sometimes spit out.

Other times you just get digested.
Sucked? LOL Average would be more accurate.  No great bomber pilots in my squad. As Goose said they had about as many 110's as we had buffs. Was not long before we were all dead. As for your comment "110s have a decent chance of shooting down 1 formation, maybe..." What dream world do you live in? They took out 4.

Bomber formations are needed. If nothing else to help the gunners that suck. ;)

You of course Krusty are welcome to un-check your bomber formations. :D
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Offline ROC

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2007, 11:53:51 AM »
I like these discussions, it shows the focus and priorities that people have.

A few points though, before we stray too far into who can't aim or shoot :rofl

The hardest thing to grasp in an Event compared to the MA is Killing the other plane isn't always the objective.

Consider a massive bomber raid, where Every Single Bomber was left alive yet was distracted Just as they came to the point of calibration and were hit.  They blew their calibration by rushing, jumping to guns, evading or whatever, and simply missed the target.

All bombers survive, all targets missed, Victory to the Axis, correct?

If the bombers have a wall of defenders up, and it's difficult to get in close to disrupt the bombers, then your attack fighter group needs to open a hole up.  Now, you can take a weaker plane and "attack" the stronger plane by tempting them away, drawing them off and opening a hole for your bomber attack group to get into.  Drawing away their defense is Equally Important as getting a kill, as the whole point of Killing the plane is to remove their defense.  

There is more to this than what plane can kill the other plane.  We've got to get out of the habit of comparing plane set to plane set in these things.  There have been far too many side switch events where one team dominated both sides to justify the bad plane matchup argument.  I rarely buy into that.

If we can maintain this concept, it will be far easier to keep people in the events for the duration, as well as make it easier to join up to a perceived "underdog" side when in fact the underdog position is a Frame of Mind, not a physical fact.

Every Plane has an advantage and disadvantage.  There is not One plane that is so superior that it will Always Prevail, no matter what.  It is important that as we leave the MA mentality behind in events, we leave them Fully and Completely.  When the planeset is announced, find the Best and Worst of Both Planes and exploit it.  You need to know what your opposition Can and Cannot do.  

You will get as much out of the events as you put into them.  Building a core group of active, aggressive, dedicated players who thrive on pushing the limits of the event design that has been handed to them will always get the most enjoyment out of the game.  If you are stuck in a rut of One Method, One Way, then in events that are as fluid as we have, you are going to be very unhappy Most of the time.  Events are supposed to break molds, break habits, force the unusual and extreme.  

Keep these concepts in mind as we continue this experiment.  There are far far more ways to win than a plane kill.  Once you tap into these resources, you just increased your gaming experience 10 fold.
ROC
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Offline Kermit de frog

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2007, 01:42:17 PM »
Well, it looks like sticking to the facts really does help with discussions.

So, now that that is over.  Will the next Sunday 9pm EST senario be this sunday?  Every Sunday or the first sunday of the month?  What will the next event be?
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Offline ROC

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2007, 03:03:15 PM »
I think we are going to try for the 25th.  The next sunday after an off FSO weekend.

That will give us time to take in all the discussions, promote it more, build up for a better night.

There have been several requests for perhaps an hour earlier, 8pm EST.

Any thoughts on the Time Frame for these things?
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Offline FiLtH

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2007, 05:11:11 PM »
I prefer 9pm et. Sunday nights are funny and I need a lil extra time before I turn on the PC normally.

~AoM~

Offline Squire

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2007, 05:26:35 PM »
With respect,

Why not capitalize on the interest generated sooner rather than later, why wait a month?

What difference does FSO have to do with a Snapshot on sunday night?

Hire more CMs if you need to.

Run a Snap on Sunday nights, seems popular, good attendance, we dont need a "big discussion" just run it.

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Offline Nefarious

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2007, 05:27:11 PM »
Because we are trying to develop an event, not Run Snapshots on Sunday Night.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Krusty

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2007, 05:45:02 PM »
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Because we are trying to develop an event, not Run Snapshots on Sunday Night.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...

It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...

Offline Nefarious

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2007, 06:18:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...

It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...


And its an event even if its ran once a year.

I Don't want to run Snapshots on Sunday. I want to run a new event. Something that isnt FSO or Snapshots or Scenarios or Close Escort etc.

Thats why we are trying to develop an new event. Should of stated it a little better
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Roscoroo

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2007, 06:19:04 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...

It's an event even if it's just once every week. FSO is an event. KOTH is an event. I don't mean to be rude, I just honestly don't follow...



we're not trying to build a historic matchup Snapshot event , nor are we wanting another FSO .... were after something inbetween ... you may see historic battles , you may see something new and off the wall .  :noid
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Offline Brooke

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2007, 07:47:08 PM »
I like the Sunday-night time slot.

This one was fun.  I'd like to see something like it run every Sunday but with a variety of genres:  Germany, eastern front, Pacific theater, North Africa, Italy, bomber-escort missions, low-level missions, carrier battles, early war, mid war, late war, different plane sets, different countries, etc. -- even alternate-history stuff like US vs. Russia, Germany vs. Japan over the Rangoon area.

Ideally, I'd like something different every week -- but most importantly, I'd like to be able to fly in such an event every Sunday.

Offline HB555

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Sunday Night Ops... so what did you think?
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2007, 07:56:32 PM »
This may be a good time to submit ideas for a name for this "event".

If I may interject my own personal opinion and thoughts on an aspect of bomber Vs. any attacker(s)...
What ROC mentioned earlier is very true, about disrupting a bomb run during calibration or drop time.
Keeping you SA is important as you approach your target. Knowing what is closing on you and how fast they are coming is critical to the timing of an accurate drop.
There have been times it was prudent for the success of the mission to give an attacker 1 or more of my planes to make a good drop, and then as soon as the bombs have been released, jump to the guns. By then, the attacker is either far enough out that you have time to relocate and set on him, or he is so darn close even a gunner that sucked could hit him.
In the meantime, your drop is good, target destroyed, mission listed as successful.
In the SEA, it pays to understand what points are worth giving up to accumulate more in another area. Targets worth more or RTB's worth more, as an example. In a 1 life event, is it more important to get the plane home for the next run, or more important to hit your assigned target?
The rules spell it all out, usually, so all you have to do is read and understand them (or ask someone who can and does).

End of personal opinion and thoughts.
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