Triple Buffs Should GO

[weirwolf]

Originally posted by quintv
How are bomber deaths score?

If you lose a formation is it one death or three?

A drone death does count as a kill to us, but if ya go to scores main page you will see the amount of kills we have in bombers, and that does out way our deaths

[quintv]

I don't know much about scores and stats but if thats the case then perhaps the bomber deaths are a tad misleading; when one considers how many drones are lost to maneuvering and take off/landings.

[tatertot]

As a advide buff dweeb,i must ask is everything in the game perfect or accurate??things have been done to fix issues for a while now field layouts more ack,and such kinda made carpet bombing bases more dificult.

if its a issue of being killed by deadly guns i diagree there to thats a number game many pilots in the game will tell you that

let me explain bad numbers 6,12,
good numbers 9 3 and the good old belly shot

point being ways around everything and fixes will come good and bad

[1Boner]

Originally posted by storch
you bomb therefore I hunt you and kill you with fairly good success trade off.  most of my bomber deaths are from hitting the warping drones or from attacking from a low E and below initial attack.  If I go hunting buffs specifically I get a 110 with full fuel drop tanks and big nose package and return with pretty good kills numbers in the bag.  I'm still against the 1,000,000 slaved guns to one shooter concept but if you attack from above with speed you will easily kill all but the most seasoned bufftards.  even the most seasoned bufftards will fall but that takes a little more work.

for i most part i (choke ) agree with ya storch.

especially that buffs are easy points and perks for the most part.

even with the slaved guns, buffs are an easy meal for a smart flyer.

so why when a buff finally gets to shoot down a fighter does he not get any points etc. towards his score?  or does he? i could be wrong on this.

and the previous version of using the bomb sights was much better than this new "idiot" version.

i was never really any good at it.

but i did get alot of satisfaction when it all fell together and worked for me.

it really wasn,t that hard.

why the hell did they have to dummy it up???

what they gonna dummy up next???

i think when i finally shoot down a plane thats been doggin me for 20 minutes , i should get some type of point/perk for it.

god knows the fighter will get all the bennies of killin my buffs!!

as far as the formations?

i say keep em--its the one thing that makes it them a little more difficult to fly.

to get them to engage you gotta be above 300 ft 1st.( pretty sure)

no radical manuvering or they go bye bye  etc,etc.

flyin a single buff for the most part would be cartoonicide!!!

most of the guys i see droppin in here couldn,t hit the broad side of a base if they had a formation with 5 drones anyway!!!




                                                      checkin my 6,

                                                                            Boner

[Scca]

Originally posted by Bronk
My complaint with buff is the drones need a bit of tweaking.

Shoot a wing off the lead and the drones start doing the falling leaf, following it down. Then once they bail out of the lead, its back to full speed at a lower alt.

Drones should continue on  and if you don't bail in time, they go poof.

Bronk

I am not the best, but I found that if I go for the left drone first, then the right drone, I don't have to deal with the warping drone issue.  

Personally, I like buff hunting.  If I stay out of their 6, I usually go 3 for 3...

[hubsonfire]

Hey Boner, IINM, you get the perk points, and the kills appear in your stats, but there seems to be no scoring or ranking categories for kills in bombers. I thought they used to do this, but I see nothing in the score pages now about kills. So, you do get some reward, but only in the form of perks.

[1Boner]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Hey Boner, IINM, you get the perk points, and the kills appear in your stats, but there seems to be no scoring or ranking categories for kills in bombers. I thought they used to do this, but I see nothing in the score pages now about kills. So, you do get some reward, but only in the form of perks. [/QUOTE


thanks hub,

perks only?

i want more!!

i want it all !!!!!!


Boner

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by Virage
The 2 arguments against buffs are false:...

2.  The average player can't hit a thing with the bombsite.  Sure many dump 36 eggs on a carrier and kill it, but  a relative few 'Aces' take the time to learn to do pinpoint bombing from alt.  This is a none issue.  How many times do you see bombs scattered all over the base vs. the times you see one buff at alt nail something on every drop?

Your #2 is off base. Here's a novel idea... learn to do it properly:eek:  Most people can't bomb because they don't try. Heaven forbid someone should have to spend a few hours in the TA practicing to get good at something. Heck I very rarely fly bombers but I can do it and hit more than I miss from 10k+. No wonder we got hordes high, people won't even take the time to learn to do the simplest thing like bombing let alone something tougher like dogfighting.

[Krusty]

I've posted a film before of me in a 190 attacking B17s at 16k+. For whatever reason, they were doing a more historical cruising speed of about 150 or 160 or so. Now, before I got to them, they'd managed to shoot down 2 other countrymen of mine. They weren't a poor aim. However, when I got to them they were mincemeat.

Why?

Because they weren't doing nearly TWICE their historical speeds like 99.999999% of all other bombers in this game.


The ONLY problem with bombers, right now, as-modeled, is their speed. Gun slaving becomes a non-issue if the bomber is flying at realistic speeds. Bomb accuracy isn't so much an issue, because the bombers take longer to get to the target, bomb, and get out. You have more time to intercept them.

The ONLY problem with bombers is their speed. Fix that (i.e. engine overheat or whatever restriction HTC adds), and the other problems go away.

[blkmgc]

I find this funny. I've flown literally hundreds and hundreds of bomber misions since the mid 90's in a few different sims including this one, and the buff WaaaaAAAAwAAAmbulance siren is the same in each game. I know its awfull that you furballers have to take the 5-6  minutes to climb to altitude, and heaven forbid you loose a couple more stat points, to intercept bombers. Its a crying shame.

  So go ahead and n3rf da bombzors. Your really not hurting the ones who are really pizzing you off, your driving away the ones who fly them correctly. Because in all my experience in all of these sims tells me.....once a dweeb, always a dweeb. Change the bombers, and the dweebs will just use a different tactic to, yes you got it, be a dweeb.

 If were going for reality here, lets throw in pilot fatigue controll loss in fighters that continually pull masive G's, and extreme cols at altitude. Slipstream effect for fighters who think bombers are kc135's and try to mid air refule to get a kill. And a half a dozen other things of the like I can think of. But you know what? we cant. This is a game. Its a great game, and probably the best game of its genre ATM. But the fact is that we are all sitting comfortably in our homes behind a monitor, and there are some things we have to accept as such. Works for both bombers and fighters. Ask yourself this, when was the last time you heard a bomber pilot whining about any fighter. We dont, because we understand that we are big flying targets to those of you who take the time to attack us correctly. Maybe some of you can accept that our job is to blow stuff up. Take that away,or nerf it into rediculousness, and theres no reason for us to be here.

from the other side of the coin.

magic sends.

[Ghastly]

Originally posted by Krusty


(snip)

The ONLY problem with bombers, right now, as-modeled, is their speed. Gun slaving becomes a non-issue if the bomber is flying at realistic speeds. Bomb accuracy isn't so much an issue, because the bombers take longer to get to the target, bomb, and get out. You have more time to intercept them.

The ONLY problem with bombers is their speed. Fix that (i.e. engine overheat or whatever restriction HTC adds), and the other problems go away.

I don't think you can, Krusty.  The problem wasn't that they weren't capable of cruising at 250 MPH, it was that they weren't capable of running on full throttle for a whole mission when there and back was 8 hours plus.

The problem is the map distances ... but I don't know who would want to play a game where an average mission length were measured in hours.

[blkmgc]

Originally posted by Ghastly


The problem is the map distances ... but I don't know who would want to play a game where an average mission length were measured in hours.

The longer the better.Actually its needed for bombers loaded heavy. As a matter of fact, were going to start incorporating seperate rollout fields for the escort AC and set RP points into the HARM missions. It makes it more realistic. Why, I can remember flying for 3 hours on a single mission in.. erm..well you know. As dedicated bomber pilots, its what we do.

BTW, does Ghastly= Ghost? (recognise the avatar) if so, man, been a long time.

[Krusty]

Well, average missions historically ran over 1000 miles. In-game they rarely last more than 50 miles (and that's IF you want to get to 20k before bombing), often as little as 25 miles (if you don't want to climb to 20k). Each sector in AH is 25 miles. You up from the closest field (often 25 mi away or less) if you don't care about alt, but you often take off 1 field back if you do care.

A historic mission would be like taking off on the far side of a 512x512 map, climbing to 23k, flying ALL the way across the map until the very edge of the other side, dropping your bombs, and flying ALL the way back across the map to your same take-off field, and landing there.

Real bombers rarely took off without full fuel. Real bombers climbed worse and flew slower because of all the fuel onboard. Forget the fact that half the bombers I see in this game eject or suicide-dive-bomb into the target along with the bombs (forget RTB and landing! HAH!)

What we have in AH is an ugly bastardization of what happened historically.

The fuel multiplier works okay for fighters. It condenses horizontal distances between fields. It just doesn't work on bomber.

Another option, rather than limit engine power/overheat, is to amp up the fuel burn on the 4-engined bombers, to the point where you NEED to throttle back or you'll never reach your target.

Say the historical range was 1000 miles. Say the AH range MAX is 100 miles (4 sectors, 1-way or 2 sectors round trip, or 4 sectors 1 way and glide down from 25k (this does work, btw, with 25k alt you can glide up to 3 sectors with engines off).

1000:100, we need a fuel burn multiplier of 10 for 4-engined bombers.

THAT would very much change the speed and fuel load taken on by bombers in this game. Most of the 2-engined bombers have shorter ranges. You really can't up a B-26 with less than 100%, or you'll never make it back home IMO. That is why I say "4-engined."

[1Boner]

Originally posted by Krusty
Well, average missions historically ran over 1000 miles. In-game they rarely last more than 50 miles (and that's IF you want to get to 20k before bombing), often as little as 25 miles (if you don't want to climb to 20k). Each sector in AH is 25 miles. You up from the closest field (often 25 mi away or less) if you don't care about alt, but you often take off 1 field back if you do care.

A historic mission would be like taking off on the far side of a 512x512 map, climbing to 23k, flying ALL the way across the map until the very edge of the other side, dropping your bombs, and flying ALL the way back across the map to your same take-off field, and landing there.

Real bombers rarely took off without full fuel. Real bombers climbed worse and flew slower because of all the fuel onboard. Forget the fact that half the bombers I see in this game eject or suicide-dive-bomb into the target along with the bombs (forget RTB and landing! HAH!)

What we have in AH is an ugly bastardization of what happened historically.

The fuel multiplier works okay for fighters. It condenses horizontal distances between fields. It just doesn't work on bomber.

Another option, rather than limit engine power/overheat, is to amp up the fuel burn on the 4-engined bombers, to the point where you NEED to throttle back or you'll never reach your target.

Say the historical range was 1000 miles. Say the AH range MAX is 100 miles (4 sectors, 1-way or 2 sectors round trip, or 4 sectors 1 way and glide down from 25k (this does work, btw, with 25k alt you can glide up to 3 sectors with engines off).

1000:100, we need a fuel burn multiplier of 10 for 4-engined bombers.

THAT would very much change the speed and fuel load taken on by bombers in this game. Most of the 2-engined bombers have shorter ranges. You really can't up a B-26 with less than 100%, or you'll never

make it back home IMO. That is why I say "4-engined."

i,m not sure i get your point!!

is this a game or a history lesson

if we applied historical facts to every machine in this game ---trust me it wouldn,t be half as much FUN as it is now.

it would probably have half the players too.

or less.

there will always be somebody complaining about something in this game

i guess it makes for good bbs fodder. historically speaking that is.



                                                                            amused,

                                                                                           Boner


real this and real that---puulease.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Krusty

1000:100, we need a fuel burn multiplier of 10 for 4-engined bombers.

THAT would very much change the speed and fuel load taken on by bombers in this game. "

And how should buffs like the lanc should reach it's "historic" or any other altitude at which they will not get slaughtered before getting close to target?
At FB 10.0, a fully loaded Lanc would have a full-power endurance of about 33 minutes. Cruise setting won't help you when you need at least 25mins of full power to get to 10k...