Author Topic: So, Sherman VC Firefly....  (Read 6617 times)

Offline E25280

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2007, 02:24:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Pyro, what's that about a single hatch in the lower pic?
I know I am not Pyro, but if you look at the open hatch on top of the turret in the bottom picture, you see that it is a single, round hatch.  On the Firefly, the commander's hatch opened in two halves.
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Offline Edbert

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2007, 02:29:16 PM »
...and the Firefly had dual reinforced "ramps" up towards the periscopes on the front-upper hull.

You can clearly see them in the top photo but not in the lower, which is an E8 to my limited knowlege.

Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2007, 02:30:05 PM »
Hubs,  what E25280 said

Firefly


M4A276W Sherman

Offline E25280

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2007, 02:35:46 PM »
OK, not an E-8 then. :(
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Offline Squire

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2007, 02:46:51 PM »
The lack of a bow mounted MG is correct, the Firefly had that position removed to reduce the crew and it carried more ammunition than a regular Sherman. It did retain the coaxial .30 cal MG as a ranging machine gun, on the left of the 17 Pdr.

The British and Canadian Shermans did not deploy the turret mounted M2 .50 cal.

The Firefly would have had the option, like other British Shermans, to have a .30  Browning on the turret.

Unless somebody can provide a photo to the contrary it should be removed (the 50). Museum tanks are not proof of wartime designs.

As for having a 30 caliber...I would say it was optional, as the Brit Shermans did have them armed that way, and you must remember that a photo of a Firefly without the turret MG doesnt "prove" it wasnt installed, ALL tanks had the turret MGs removed and stored inside the tank. Placing it in the mounting was the tank commanders call. Often it wasnt deemed as needed, so it stayed unmounted. Or, moving through dense brush, or if they were expecting an enemy barrage, are all reasons to keep it unmounted. US Army Sherman photos are the same, sometimes there is no 50 mounted, simply because its not mounted on the tank at the time the photo was snapped.

Model of a Candian Firefly with a .30 mounted:

http://hsgalleries.com/images/fireflybf_1.jpg

Photo of a Firefly with a turret MG under a cover (looks like a .30 to me):

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/GB-ShermanFireFly-Normandy.jpg
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 03:49:46 PM by Squire »
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Offline Edbert

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2007, 03:17:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
OK, not an E-8 then. :(

The lower picture?

Only other long barreled Sherman was the 76A right? The one pictured is definitely upgunned from a 76A.

Edit:A76 not 76A
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 03:51:07 PM by Edbert »

Offline Warspawn

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2007, 03:39:13 PM »
Sherman "Firefly" of the 13/18th Hussars with 3rd Div infantrymen before Goodwood.

The tanks have MG's mounted up top, but can't tell if they're .50's or 30 cals...






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Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2007, 03:42:11 PM »
Long gun shermans

M4A1(76)w
M4A2(76)w
M4A3(76)w HVSS

I dont have anything (yet) for the E8

Offline hubsonfire

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2007, 04:24:56 PM »
Squire's post is interesting. It seems reasonable, and from a pure gameplay perspective, the addition of a top mounted gun would offer some degree of defense against aircraft, and also becomes good for spraying would-be tankjacking jeeps, and troops.

If the documentation points to the guns being equipped, and there are pictures of Fireflies both with and without the top gun mounted, surely it wouldn't be a game breaker to model it in.

Granted, I'm no expert on armor, but I am of the mindset that if one gun is good, 2 is better, and 3 is better still. ;)

It's an interesting discussion. A crash course in military hardware without leaving the comfort of your desk chair. :aok
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 04:27:15 PM by hubsonfire »
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Offline Stoliman

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2007, 04:49:05 PM »
Hubs, that is a great observation.  So long as the bug exists where a jeep can crawl inside and kill any tank, the top mounted machine gun should stay.
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Offline Ball

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2007, 04:50:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
becomes good for spraying would-be tankjacking jeeps


:rofl

that made me laugh.

Offline Fencer51

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2007, 06:47:51 PM »
Don't remember seeing this mentioned but the default skin is most likely..

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Offline Wes14

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2007, 06:50:48 PM »
Tank jacking Jeeps:noid

how about running' man jeep as he gets carpet bombed:noid

so this "firefly: sherman would beat the T-34 here :O  looks like i need a new ride:noid
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Offline cpxxx

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2007, 08:12:38 PM »
What I find interesting about this thread is how it parallels all the tank buffs websites and modeller sites. There are often huge arguments around variations.

The Sherman is an absolute minefield of variations. Some people model only Shermans and have yet to run out of new twists. For every factory model there are ten field variations, rebuilds and updates. So you can guarantee that somebody somewhere put a .50 cal on the turret of a Firefly. All we need is photo proof.

Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2007, 08:44:19 PM »
alright, earlier today I ran across a site that said that there were approximately 80 Fireflys give to the US Army and they mounted .50s.  article was very particular about references to a British document and related information pertaining to the mounting of the gun and storage of ammo containers.  I am trying to find that site again...

In the meantime I have ran across this...i dont think its a firefly, but it could have been misidentified on the website.  its has a .50 but it looks like it also has a hull gun.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=266

Quote
In Italy British and Commonwealth forces used the same Sherman models as their NW European counterparts but without as many Firefly Shermans until late 1944 as there wasn’t as much German armoured opposition. The British received some M4A1(76)W (Sherman IIa) and M4(105) (Sherman 1b) Shermans under lend-lease and some went to the Polish Armoured division in France and all the rest went to the British and Commonwealth armoured units on the Italian front.

Left: M4A1(76)W (Sherman IIa) in South African service in Italy