Author Topic: So, Sherman VC Firefly....  (Read 6616 times)

Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2007, 08:58:30 PM »

Offline kamilyun

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2007, 09:04:41 PM »
So long as a jeep can drive inside of a tiger and kill it...

....Fireflies shall have turret mounted .50 cals.

Offline hubsonfire

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2007, 09:10:28 PM »
More guns on a tank? Brilliant!
mook
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Offline DREDIOCK

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2007, 09:14:11 PM »
From what I've been able to find. Its all going to depend onthe type of main gun HTC is planning on using

If it has the 75MM then the gun can stay. If they are using the 17 pdr anti Tank Gun  then the coaxil gun was removed

Though some commanders added the 30 cal to the turret

"Sherman and Sherman Firefly:

The M4 Sherman if probably one of the best known tanks of the Second World War. It was developed from requests by the British for a tank with a 75mm gun in a rotating turret, instead of the sponson used on the Grant.

 
Two designs were considered, one using a cast hull and the other a welded hull, with both basing the engine and running gear on the M3 Grant. A welded hull model of the M4 was produced as the M4A1 and production began in February 1942, for delivery to the British. The basic Sherman has a turtle backed hull and a cast turret. The driver sat in the front left with an assistant driver/machine gunner alongside him. The engine was an air-cooled aircraft radial mounted in the rear of the hull. The drive shaft then passed along the floor to the transmission unit in the front, where it drove the track drive sprockets. The turret mounted a 75mm gun and a co-axial machine gun, with the gunner on the right, the commander behind him, with the loader/machine gunner on the left. The early Shermans have the characteristic of having rounded corners to the top of the front hull, while the latter one had "squarer" corners.

 
The 75mm gun soon became obsolete and the British re-gunned some of their Shermans with the 17-pdr anti-tank gun, which became known as the Firefly (Left). This gave them a method of knocking out the heavier German tanks at longer range. The Americans used a 76mm version to achieve the same. To accommodate the larger gun the coaxial machine gun was removed and a larger counter weight fitted to the back of the turret. Towards the end of the war the later models also had the hull machine gun removed so more of the larger 17-pdr ammunition could be carried. To provide protection against infantry some tank commanders often mounted a 0.30" Browning or BESA machine gun on the turret.

All models of the Sherman caught fire easily, which earned them the nickname of "Ronsons" by their crews and "Tommy Cookers" by the Germans, but it was the mainstay of the British Armoured Division until almost the end of the war, when the Cromwell had fully replaced it. A Diesel version was also produced which did not catch fire so easily, but this was not widely available. "



Now the only other question is if they are planning on using the Gas or Deisel version LOL
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Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2007, 09:29:07 PM »
I dont know, the more I read the more confuseded I get...

Sherman VC Firefly
(M4A4 rearmed with 17pdr gun, hull machine gun deleted to increase ammunition stowage)

http://www.tanxheaven.com/ljs/fireflyljs/fireflyljs.htm

now someone earlier today posted a pic from this site and Pyro said a rebuilt museum piece didnt count.  But I'm curious because this says its an M4A4 Firefly specs.  

now here's a pic of the mounting from two different tanks

one with



and one without



So something was mounted there, either a .30 or a .50

Offline Airscrew

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2007, 10:00:05 PM »
nothing yet but I did run across another interesting site... got a lot of color pics of Shermans, Stuarts, etc

http://community.webshots.com/user/stahlgewitter33

http://www.oorlogsmusea.nl/artikel/759
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 10:14:35 PM by Airscrew »

Offline hubsonfire

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2007, 11:29:49 PM »
I think Squire hit the nail on the head. No army would say "Fewer guns is better", but many would say, "FFS, put the gun inside the tank when you don't need it". Or maybe that's just me.
mook
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #82 on: March 22, 2007, 11:48:21 PM »
HTC's own artists made the Firefly's "50 cal" look like a giant 30 cal (perforated barrel jacket). That should be a good hint of what their references showed...


Offline Guppy35

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2007, 11:50:31 PM »
Looked through all my stuff and not a single pic of Sherman Firefly's with MGs on top.  

I think part of the issue was the additional hatch that was put on the Firefly, where there was not a hatch on the standard Sherman at the time.  

Someone posted a shot of a supposed Firefly during Goodwood, but I've seen a number of photos of Shermans used by the Brits, Canadians and Poles that had a storage bin in the same place the extention was for the Firefly and I believe that's what the photo shows, not a Firefly.

If it was up to me, I'd leave the 50 off the Sherman Firefly.

I'm also quite thankful that Pyro and company chose the Firefly to give it a chance against the Tiger etc instead of going with the standard short  barrel 75 Sherman.
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Offline Widewing

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #84 on: March 22, 2007, 11:54:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew



This is an M4A3....

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2007, 12:00:21 AM »
Widewing,

Actually thats not an M4A3 - its an M4A2 under lead lease to the Russians. The M4A2 was a diesel powered Sherman.  In any case it certainly ist a firefly.

And, as a handy ID tip,  all Firefly's were built on regular 75mm Sherman turrets and not on the T23 turrets of 76mm shermans.

Offline Waffle

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2007, 12:04:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
HTC's own artists made the Firefly's "50 cal" look like a giant 30 cal (perforated barrel jacket). That should be a good hint of what their references showed...

 


Actually, it was piece no. c4047 from the m2 50cal jacket assembly that makes it look like it does. :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 12:13:10 AM by Waffle »

Offline Slash27

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2007, 12:07:39 AM »
Turn to the Military Channel right now.:aok

Offline Widewing

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2007, 12:15:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Looked through all my stuff and not a single pic of Sherman Firefly's with MGs on top.  

I think part of the issue was the additional hatch that was put on the Firefly, where there was not a hatch on the standard Sherman at the time.  

Someone posted a shot of a supposed Firefly during Goodwood, but I've seen a number of photos of Shermans used by the Brits, Canadians and Poles that had a storage bin in the same place the extention was for the Firefly and I believe that's what the photo shows, not a Firefly.

If it was up to me, I'd leave the 50 off the Sherman Firefly.

I'm also quite thankful that Pyro and company chose the Firefly to give it a chance against the Tiger etc instead of going with the standard short  barrel 75 Sherman.


I've seen several Firefly Vc types with .50 cal BMG mounted on the turrets.

Here's one...



My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Guppy35

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So, Sherman VC Firefly....
« Reply #89 on: March 23, 2007, 12:21:27 AM »
Any info on where that image was taken Widewing?  I'd happily accept it as wrong that standard practice was not to have the 50 on the Firefly.  

I got interested in the Battles between the British, Canadiens and Poles vs the German SS armor from Caen to Faliase after we stayed in a place in Cauvicourt in 2005 near where Wittmann met his end.  I grabbed all the books I could find at the time and since about those battles and even though the photos show short barreled Shermans with Firefly's only the short barrel Shermans show the 50s on the turret.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters