Author Topic: Iran  (Read 7749 times)

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2007, 12:14:25 PM »
No Dowding, more along the lines of how France, Germany, and Russia continued to ship arms to Iraq even after a UN arms embargo was in place.  That in and of it self was criminal and resulted in casualties for coalition forces during this current conflict there.

It's ok though for you right, I am sure not to many Brits were killed by the actions of your Euro friends...  :rolleyes:
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Offline VOR

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« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2007, 12:28:54 PM »
Dowding has a point. Everyone was guilty of riding that gravy train back then. It's no secret. I suppose nowadays it's been made legal by replacing the leadership that made it so scandalous, which in and of itself is of course scandalous. It's politics in action, and it would make a great comedy film.

Bodhi, that accusation you're making needs some reference.

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2007, 01:25:49 PM »
If you need a linky to that VOR, you must have had your head buried in the sand the past few years.
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2007, 03:25:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Bodhi, that accusation you're making needs some reference.


Where in the hell have you been?   Oil-for-Food needs no link, the three countries have businesses that ADMITTED to "the accusation".
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2007, 04:08:07 PM »
"What does appear clear is that the major source of external financial resources to the Iraqi Regime resulted from sanctions violations outside the Programme's framework. These illicit sales, usually referred to as 'smuggling,' began years before the Program started. Exports of Iraqi oil to both Jordan and Turkey and imports form those countries generally took place within the terms of trade agreements ('protocols') negotiated with Iraq. The existence, but not necessarily the amounts, of sales and purchases under these protocols was brought to the attention of the 661 Committee and at least in the case of Jordan, it was 'noted.' United States law requires that assistance programs to countries in violation of United Nations sanctions be ended unless continuation is determined to be in the national interest. Such determinations were provided by successive United States administrations for both Jordan and Turkey. In the later stages of the Programme, substantial Iraqi sales of oil were made to Syria and small sales to Egypt under similar 'protocols.'"

-Former U.S. Federal Reserve Chair Paul Volcker


"It is clear that the whole world, including the United States, knew about Iraq's oil sales to Turkey, Jordan and Syria. In the case of the United States, we not only knew about the oil sales, we actively stopped the United Nations Iraq Sanctions Committee, known as the 661 Committee, from acting to stop those sales…Hundreds of millions of dollars went into the pockets of Saddam Hussein as a result."

-Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) during a February 15, 2005 Hearing of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations into Oil-for-Food Program allegations.


Furthermore, the responsibility for preventing illegal oil trades did not belong to the UN. The UN Office of the Iraq Program, which administered OFFP, had neither the authority nor the resources to prevent smuggling. Patrick Kennedy, Ambassador to the UN for Management and Reform at the U.S. Mission to the UN, testified to this recently, stating that "Oil flowing out of Iraq through other means - smuggling, trade protocols and the voucher system - was outside the mandate of the UN Secretariat." During the same hearing, in response to questioning by Senator Levin, Kennedy also testified that the U.S. was aware of the oil sales with Jordan and Turkey ("…the sales - the trade - was going on and we were aware of it.").

The task of policing oil smuggling fell to the Multinational Interception Force (MIF), led by the Fifth Fleet of the U.S. Navy. The coalition making up MIF was initiated following the inception of the sanctions in 1990. The objective remained the same throughout its existence - to halt violations of United Nations Security Council Resolutions 661 and 665.

Offline Hawco

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« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2007, 04:11:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soviet
Again misquoting me.  I never said I have no desire to serve my country.  I have no desire to serve it in these unjust wars.  Spare me the "you can just enjoy the security of living here that someone else provided for you."  I fail to see how the Iraq war is giving us freedom and security.  Those two things we already had and were not in danger.

Furthermore how am I not serving my country by not enlisting in the military.  There are plenty of other roles this nation needs.  Instead of enlisting I pursued my BBA in Finance and am soon to go back to school to pursue my MBA.  If my nation truly needed me then of course I'd serve but I fail to see how my country NEEDS me in a conflict which poses no threat to the US.

Hey Soviet
The biggest thing you can do in your life is serve your country, you'll meet friends and have brothers for the rest of your life, sure, guys like me often look back and wish I had dated chicks while being in college etc and driving them to live concerts in fancy cars, but I didn't, I (and thousands of others) served the country, good or bad, I done it, I'm dammned proud of that, even though it mean't I missed out on all the fun stuff that 18-25 years olds do. Wars come and go, historians tell us what was a good one or bad one, but only a select few ever experience one, be one of them Soviet and be proud of it too.

Offline Hawco

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« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2007, 04:16:38 PM »
I also don't like the way a lot of guys on here try and politize these things, if your country goes to war, ANY war, then the first thing you should do is get your prettythang down to the recruiting office and fight for your gawd dammned country, I mean christ, there's no other option but to is there?
Doesn't matter what the war is or what the UN/ Middle East or whoever says, when yer country comes calling, you better listen and get in the fight.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2007, 05:08:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
You forgot option number four. The option on which this country was founded.
====
nope, the only other option that I could have possibly disregarded was the option to flee to mexico.  Actually a better option than mexico if you discount amylee.com


Quote
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


10 points if you can name what I quoted from.
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Offline VOR

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« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2007, 06:25:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
If you need a linky to that VOR, you must have had your head buried in the sand the past few years.


Actually, I have had my head (and the rest of my body) in the sand over the past few years. Perhaps you could fill me in? I'm interested in French, German and Russian weapon systems shipped to Iraq during the embargo that you mentioned in your post above.

Offline VOR

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« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2007, 06:28:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Where in the hell have you been?   Oil-for-Food needs no link, the three countries have businesses that ADMITTED to "the accusation".


I'm aware of some shifty record-keeping and the like during the program. Nothing new and not a surprise. What I'd like to know about are French, German and Russian weapon systems being sold/shipped/smuggled during the embargo. Thanks.

Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #100 on: March 26, 2007, 06:38:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
I also don't like the way a lot of guys on here try and politize these things, if your country goes to war, ANY war, then the first thing you should do is get your prettythang down to the recruiting office and fight for your gawd dammned country, I mean christ, there's no other option but to is there?
Doesn't matter what the war is or what the UN/ Middle East or whoever says, when yer country comes calling, you better listen and get in the fight.


Maybe you should have went to college.  You sound like a brain-washed war machine.  I'll take a pencil and paper over killing any day.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #101 on: March 26, 2007, 08:25:16 PM »
Now that I'm thinking about it, I think the british response has been week, especially today.  They now have the families out begging for release?


Me?  I would have promised to nuke Tehran if the sailors weren't released in a week.  

Any official response from then on would just be the time left til the nuke fell, nothing more.
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #102 on: March 26, 2007, 08:27:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Maybe you should have went to college.  You sound like a brain-washed war machine.  I'll take a pencil and paper over killing any day.


Thank God you are a buffoon and not the President.    It's also comforting you support your US Armed Forces Veterans.
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Offline Hawco

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« Reply #103 on: March 26, 2007, 08:55:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
If you need a linky to that VOR, you must have had your head buried in the sand the past few years.


Roland sam system for a start, came across a wrecked system at a base called H2, that's a FRENCH system.
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Offline Dichotomy

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« Reply #104 on: March 26, 2007, 09:05:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Maybe you should have went to college.  You sound like a brain-washed war machine.  I'll take a pencil and paper over killing any day.


Sometimes the pencil and paper do not keep the enemy at bay.  From time to time you have to have soldiers go and actually kill them instead of sending diplomats to negotiate with them.

I'd prefer the pencil and paper but I'll support any man or woman that stands on the wall and fights the fight.
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