Yamato

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Treize69
Or just watch "Death of the Japanese Navy" when it reruns bi-weekly in the History Channel.

Good program, but the book is light years more in depth. Did you know that one of the 5" guns on an escort carrier disabled a Japanese Heavy Cruiser? One 5" into the ready torpedoes.... Knocked out her powerplant. Left her adrift and burning. TBMs later finished off the Chokai. The USS White Plains stern gun crew scored 6 consecutive hits at 11,700 yards. Boom went the torpedoes. Shock and awe, indeed.

Lots of good reading...

My regards,

Widewing

[DiabloTX]

Agreed.  The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors should be Spielberg/Hanks next mini-series project.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by DiabloTX

If you like WWII naval surface warfare sims check out Fighting Steel.  I've been playing it pretty much non-stop since 2001.  You can get it here..  It's not perfect but it's very good.  The updates they've come up with have all the BB's found in WWII and some that weren't even made such as the Montana's, the Soviet BB's, the 15" Scharnhorsts, and others.  It even has my fave, the Alaska class BC's.

I loved that game! I thought that it seemed "incomplete," especially when compared to previous SSI titles of the Genre, but what they did, they did right. I've been meaning to slip a bottle of scotch and a copy of that game under HT's door.

-Sik

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Karnak
We never hit a single Japanese BB with a 16" shell.

We hit lots of Japanese BCs that we called BBs with 16" shells.

Look at the armor on a Iowa or King George V or Bismark or Yamato or Nagato and then look at the armor on the Hood, Repulse and Kongo class ships.

The Hood and Repulse are bluntly BCs.  The Kongo's armor is about the same and far below the others I listed.

Just because we called them BBs doesn't make them BBs.


And you seem to have mistaken what I said earlier.  There was no contradiction.  They were shooting at jeep carriers, completely unarmored.  Purpose built CVs had armor.  Not BB type armor, but armor.


As to the 18" guns in comparison to the 16", well, we know the range and weight of the shell.  Guess which one is heavier?  Remember, plunging fire is what kills BBs.

Wasn't some of the older class BB's, or BC's as you call them like the Ise and Fuso, actually bulit by the British in the early 1900s? It seems I read that somewhere once and you're the guy to ask.

Originally posted by DiabloTX
I find it interesting that the IJN still allocated resouces to these super-BB's even after they had decided the critical importance of CV's over BB's.  Yamamoto was against the building of the Yamato's but there wasn't a whole lot he could do about it.  
 

Even at the battle of Midway what the japanese called the "Main Body" of their strike fleet was made up of BB's and CA's. They still planned to finish the US fleet off with their big guns after the CV's and weakened them some. I really think even Yammamoto wasn't completely convinced the CV was true naval power until afetr Midway.

[wklink]

The Kongo was built by the British.  It was the last capital ship built for the Japanese by another country.  After that she home built her BBs and BCs.  

And btw, 16 inch American Guns did hit enemy battleships.  In the Battle of Surigao Straits the US Battleships West Virginia and Maryland engaged the IJN battlewagons.  This was a pretty one sided fight but both of those BBs carried 16/45 main guns.

[FrodeMk3]

wklink is correct, I believe the Fuso was sunk by american BB's.

[Karnak]

So far as I can tell, Japan had four battleships.

Nagato survived the war and was expended at Bikini.
Mutsu was destroyed by an ammo explosion while in harbor.
Yamato was destroyed by air attack.
Musashi was destroyed by air attack.


The rest of Japan's battleships seem more like battlecruisers to me.

[Movie]

i agree they where either heavy cruisers and destroyers some escort ships and like thats it

[wklink]

Originally posted by Karnak
So far as I can tell, Japan had four battleships.

Nagato survived the war and was expended at Bikini.
Mutsu was destroyed by an ammo explosion while in harbor.
Yamato was destroyed by air attack.
Musashi was destroyed by air attack.


The rest of Japan's battleships seem more like battlecruisers to me.

The Fuso and Ise classes were both true drednought style battleships.  They had the same 12 inch armor that the Nagato class did, similar speed ratings as well.  Their deck armor was thinner but that was typical of the pre WW1 styled BBs.  

The Kongo class was a BC that was 'upgraded' over the years.  The Japanese saw what happened to Royal Navy BCs at Jutland and tried to correct the deficiencies with their own battlecruisers.  Remember that two of these three ships were built in Japan, but they are based upon a British design and as such had the same problems the original British Battlecruisers had.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Movie
i agree they where either heavy cruisers and destroyers some escort ships and like thats it

Mistaking a Battle Cruiser for a Battleship is easy, mistaking a Heavy Cruiser for a Battleship is possible. Mistaking a Destroyer or Escort for a Battleship means you should join the Air Force

[Movie]

this is the Japanese battleship Kongô, was the Imperial Japanese Navy's first super-dreadnought type battlecruiser. Later "upgraded" to battleship.

Career  
Ordered: 1911
Laid down: January 17, 1911
Launched: May 18, 1912
Commissioned: August 16, 1913
Fate: Sunk on 21 November 1944 in the Formosa Strait
Removed from the Navy list: 20 January 1945
General characteristics
Displacement: 36,600 tons
Length: 222 m (728 feet 4 inches)
Beam: 31 m (101 feet 8 inches)
Draught: 9.7 m (31 feet 9 inches)
Propulsion: steam turbines, 4 shafts
Speed: 30 knots
Range: 10,000 nm at 14 kt
Complement: 1360
Armament: Eight 14 inch guns, sixteen 6 inch guns, eight 5 inch DP, up to 118 × 25 mm AA

[Karnak]

Nagato class was the most powerful warship in the world when it was launched in the 1920s.  First BB with 16" guns, good armor and faster than any Dreadought.

[Movie]

this is the USS New Orleans heavycruiser...
Career  
Ordered:  
Laid down: 14 March 1931
Launched: 12 April 1933
Commissioned: 15 February 1934
Decommissioned: 10 February 1947
Fate: Scrapped in 1959
Struck: 1 March 1959
General Characteristics
Displacement: 9,950 tons
Length: 588 ft 2 in (179 m)
Beam: 61 ft 9 in (18.8 m)
Draft: 19 ft 5 in (5.9 m)
Propulsion:  
Speed: 32.7 knots
Range:  
Complement: 708 officers and enlisted
Armament: 9 × 8 in (203 mm), 8 × 5 in (127 mm), 8 × .50 (~12.7 mm) calibre guns

[Movie]

this is the USS Iowa battleship...
Career  
Ordered: 1 July 1939
Laid down: 27 June 1940
Launched: 27 August 1942
Commissioned: 22 February 1943
Decommissioned: 26 October 1990
Struck: 17 March 2006
Status: Maintained as part of the US Reserve Fleet
Slated to be donated for use as a museum ship on or around 2008
General Characteristics
Displacement: 45,000 tons
Length: 887 ft 3 in (270 m)
Beam: 108 ft 2 in (32.9 m)
Draft: 37 ft 2 in (11.3 m)
Speed: 33 knots (61 km/h)
Complement: 151 officers, 2637 enlisted
Armament: 1943 9 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal. Mark 7 guns
20 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns
80 40 mm 56 cal. anti-aircraft guns
49 20 mm 70 cal. anti-aircraft guns
 

[Movie]

Now this is the USS McGowan destroyer...
General Characteristics
Displacement: 2,050 tons
Length: 376 ft 6 in (114.7 m)
Beam: 39 ft 8 in (12.1 m)
Draft: 17 ft 9 in (5.4 m)
Propulsion: 60,000 shp (45 MW);
geared turbines;
2 propellers
Speed: 38 knots (70 km/h)
Range: 6,500 nautical miles at 15 kt
  (12,000 km at 30 km/h)
Complement: 319
Armament: 5 × 5 in.(127 mm)/38 guns,
10 × 40 mm AA guns,
7 × 20 mm AA guns,
10 × 21 in. torpedo tubes,
6 × depth charge projectors,
2 × depth charge tracks