Author Topic: Deflection 101 (Read 4548 times)

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #75 on:** April 15, 2007, 02:55:08 AM »

Where is the nose of your plane pointing when you are setting up a lead turn? In front, on, or behind the enemy? How about when you are setting up to get behind the enemy for a 6 shot? Where is your nose pointing when you are taking a HO shot?

If your nose is pointing in front, or at the enemy, you are loosing angles. If your enemy is going for angles and setup for a 6 shot, if you miss, your going to loose.

When the enemy is firing at the merge, you know where his nose is pointing, use it to your advantage. If your shooting back... you shouldn't be complaining

Gunner

The Fugitive · « **Reply #76 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:11:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".

If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.

I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.

I think all he was trying to say here is if the first move is a HO, most likely the next move the "dweeb' will make is a high "G" tight turn going for another HO, in which case he is easy prey. I don't think he was talking about someone who knows how to fly and fight.

Sweet2th · « **Reply #77 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:49:08 AM »

I will be Hosting this map today if any of you wanna try it out for yourselves.

Vudak · « **Reply #78 on:** April 15, 2007, 09:24:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".

If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.

I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.

First of all, just because he's pointing his nose directly at you on the first merge doesn't mean you are reciprocating.

I suppose it would be a generalization, but I wouldn't call it that huge. If you are in a 1 on 1 with a guy in the MA, and he tries to shoot you on the first merge, almost always, without fail, one of two things are going to happen:

1. Your going to kill him after the merge
2. He's going to run away

If his primary tactic is to try and kill you at the first merge, he hasn't, generally, learned too many secondary ones.

Are there exceptions? Sure. But they are very few and far between.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #79 on:** April 15, 2007, 11:06:00 AM »

Fugative and Vudak, I agree with both of you. Most of the time in the MA's the HO player will follow with a high-g turn and, in fact, becomes easy prey but they are almost always noobs who start spraying at 1.5K.

I was just poiniting out that just because someone HO's doesn't nessesarily mean they're dead within seconds. If so I want to figure out what plane makes an instantaneous 180 degree spin with no loss of E

One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there

).

Vudak · « **Reply #80 on:** April 15, 2007, 11:27:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Fugative and Vudak, I agree with both of you. Most of the time in the MA's the HO player will follow with a high-g turn and, in fact, becomes easy prey but they are almost always noobs who start spraying at 1.5K.

I was just poiniting out that just because someone HO's doesn't nessesarily mean they're dead within seconds. If so I want to figure out what plane makes an instantaneous 180 degree spin with no loss of E

One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there ).

Well, whenever I hear someone complain about a HO, I assume they mean that he fired on the first merge, which, in certain circles is frowned upon, for understandable reasons.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #81 on:** April 15, 2007, 11:53:53 AM »

Avoiding all the Ho vs. Non-HO stuff I'd just like to provide one tip for noobies with regard to deflection shooting.

Always lead more than you think initially..It is much easier to relax your lead as the bullets appear 'long' than to try to pull for more lead during a manuever which could cause a blackout if going fast with high G's or a spin or stall if slow.

Zazen

Gianlupo · « **Reply #82 on:** April 15, 2007, 05:19:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by The Fugitive

Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".

If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.

I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.

I think all he was trying to say here is if the first move is a HO, most likely the next move the "dweeb' will make is a high "G" tight turn going for another HO, in which case he is easy prey. I don't think he was talking about someone who knows how to fly and fight.

What Fugitive (and Vudak) said, BaldEagl. Most of the guys who will HO you in MA don't know how to fight and they will just merge, try to fire to you in the face and just turn as hard as they can once they have passed you to come back, just like in a joust. All you have to do is turning in the vertical and you'll be at their 6 in a matter of seconds.

Quote

One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there ).

You're right, BaldEagl, but I said "someone who tries" to HO you. I mean guys who'll come right to you firing, regardless of what you do to deny them the HO shot, hence losing angles and ending up in a disadvantaged position.... basically clueless pilots as I said.

I have some nice .ahf of what I said, but, as long as PH is down, I can't post it!

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #83 on:** April 15, 2007, 05:43:19 PM »

"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"

hey baldeagle,

i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!

sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after

bat

Sweet2th · « **Reply #84 on:** April 15, 2007, 07:05:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"

hey baldeagle,

i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!

sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after

bat

What did the 5 Fingers say too the Face?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #85 on:** April 15, 2007, 11:45:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"

hey baldeagle,

i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!

sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after

bat

Never claimed I win em all

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #86 on:** April 16, 2007, 02:41:49 AM »

just sayin' it can be done and is often done to me and to others hehe

'on yes six in a matter of seconds' moments can come even from a HO merge as long as the person doing the on yer six bit is slightly off angle and ready for the move.

usually only count for something with cannon armed birds and lucky shooting though.

S!

Gianlupo · « **Reply #87 on:** April 16, 2007, 03:01:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gianlupo
... and that means I can easily be on his six in a matter of seconds. Just avoid the first HO, and the kill is yours!

Btw, being on the other guy's six in a matter of seconds doesn't mean killing him in that time: just that if you don't follow him in the rush for the HO, you can control the rest of the fight from his rear quarter and eventually kill him. I'm afraid I wrote those words in too much of a rush.

StuB · « **Reply #88 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:40:24 AM »

Yes, you are correct, but that had to do with where your damage showed up. They were still able to turn on and off HO's. I'm pretty sure they were able to do this because it had to do with where the shots came from rather than where they hit.

Quote

Originally posted by GunnerCAF
AW had the randomizer (better known as the reamdomizer), where you took damage was based on a roll of a dice. Nothing to do with HOs or where you were hit.

Gunner

StuB · « **Reply #89 on:** April 16, 2007, 07:49:17 AM »

?????

You read allot into things, don't you?

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Originally posted by WMDnow
Thank you for supporting someone who calls the game 'real life'.