Author Topic: Chambering Semiauto First Shots (Read 2677 times)

Dago · « **Reply #105 on:** April 05, 2007, 11:38:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Halo
It's late and I'm going to bed. Go back and reconsider the steps. You really stacked the odds against revolvers.

No, advancing technology did, along with improved gun design. Despite the really poor arguements lazs trys to make, semi-autos are better in the large majority of situations. That is why sales of semi-autos now overwhelms revolvers, that is why many gun manufacturers (including Colt) have stopped even producing revolvers.

The arguement for revolvers is purely an emotional arguement based on subjective choice, not real world handgun realities and fact.

Xargos · « **Reply #106 on:** April 06, 2007, 12:03:17 AM »

Reasons I prefer a wheelgun:

They don't jam.
If I have a misfire all I have to do is squeeze the trigger again.
I can fire it through the clothing in my pocket and not worry about the slide getting caught in the lining.
It's easier to grab in a hurry because the handle is not up as tight against the skin as an auto.
I always know what state of readiness it's in.
It's not picky about what kind of ammo it's feed.
The barrel doesn't move so it's a stabler shooting platform.
Easier to clean then an auto.
Easier to conceal because it's butt isn't as big as an autos.
Doesn't throw brass everywhere.
Not as many moving parts.

Most people buy semi-autos because they think they look cool. I bet over half the autos sold in the U.S. never have more then 200 rounds put through them.

Speed loaders are easy and fast to use.

SCDC still uses .357 and I doubt they will ever switch over.

Dago · « **Reply #107 on:** April 06, 2007, 07:31:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Xargos
Reasons I prefer a wheelgun:

They don't jam.
If I have a misfire all I have to do is squeeze the trigger again.
I can fire it through the clothing in my pocket and not worry about the slide getting caught in the lining.
It's easier to grab in a hurry because the handle is not up as tight against the skin as an auto.
I always know what state of readiness it's in.
It's not picky about what kind of ammo it's feed.
The barrel doesn't move so it's a stabler shooting platform.
Easier to clean then an auto.
Easier to conceal because it's butt isn't as big as an autos.
Doesn't throw brass everywhere.
Not as many moving parts.

Most people buy semi-autos because they think they look cool. I bet over half the autos sold in the U.S. never have more then 200 rounds put through them.

Speed loaders are easy and fast to use.

SCDC still uses .357 and I doubt they will ever switch over. [/B]

Wrong on many issues.

It is widely accepted revolvers are worse for concealed carry because they are wider and bulkier.

They do jam, only someone who either isn't familiar with revolvers, or someone who won't admit the truth would ever say differant.

Who in the heck fires "through their pocket"? ONLY on TV

A holster makes a semi-auto plenty easy to grab in a hurry.

Revolvers have on average many more moving parts than a semi-auto, they really do. I posted that once before, showing the part count for both.

Slides move on semi-autos, the barrel is secured to the frame.

Anyone worth a dang with his handgun knows if it is ready to fire. Anyone lacking the ability to remember has no business handling a pistol.

Yeah, ya got me on the cleaning thing, it takes me thirty seconds to field strip a semi, but then I can clean the barrel from the chamber end, not the muzzle end, so I don't screw up the accuracy as cleaning from the muzzle will do.

And yeah, it throws it's brass out, and out of the way, I dont have to spend time clearing it out myself later. For a tactical use, this is an advantage, prevents wasted time on a reload, I am sure one of the many advantages the military and law enforcement agency appreciated when they switched to semi-autos.

And BTW, the overwhelming majority of competitive shooters in practical, combat, and target shooting use semi-autos. (as do the winners in the matches)

I suspect most people buy semi-autos because the overwhelming advantages make it a better weapon for all they want the handgun for.

Xargos · « **Reply #108 on:** April 06, 2007, 07:56:25 AM »

I've only had a wheelgun jam on me once when I was re-qualifying because I got stuck with a worn out .357. I've carried both autos and wheelguns concealed and my S&W does not poke out nearly as far. Many times I'll put my gun in my pocket and I will shoot through it if I have to. I've noticed that many people who carry autos do not keep one in the chamber and you may not have enough time to rack it in a bad situation. I feel safer with my revolver because that is the weapon I have had the most training with because that is what I had to use on my job.

Autos are for people who don't mind spending time training and if your really into guns they might be better for you. But if you don't spend much time with guns you maybe better off with a revolver because they are simpler to use.

P.S. You are right about the parts, I should not have put that in the list. I'm not a gunsmith nor do I pretend to be, so on this subject please correct me on future stupid commits I make.

P.P.S. I have always been more into making the bullets, in-fact I have lead poisoning from casting my own over the years.

lazs2 · « **Reply #109 on:** April 06, 2007, 08:42:01 AM »

dago.. you are not reading the thread. Every one of the gee whiz semi auto guys here keeps their guns in a different state of readiness..

This isn't the police of the military or your gun club or semi auto bb.

Steps to fire someones semi auto who is here (real life)... well... who knows? about one to 5 and then.. only if you can figure out how to dump the mag or rack the slide or work the safeties or....

I keep the Kimber with one in the chamber and the hammer at half... I know that.. It is my gun. I can thumb it back while I grab it no problem. some guys here have to load their unloaded mags... then get a friend to rack back the slide...

I can tell if any of your revolvers are ready to go by looking at it.. you can see the brass at the recoil shield on modern revolvers (they quit countersinking the case rims in the 50's to save money) unless it is full of spent rounds it is good to go if you see brass. press back the trigger or thumb back the hammer and press the trigger.. those are your options.

no safeties or mags to worry about. speedloaders load all six or five or 7 at once. In the field I load 2 rounds at a time... I can unload and load 6 a lot faster than the semi auto guys can dump a mag and load it and then put it back in the gun and then rack the slide to get the damn thing to actually be ready to fire.

for all around.. unless you are into a very narrow interest in guns... wheelguns rule... you can shoot far more powerful rounds and you can shoot a variety of loads of the same caliber in the same gun...

If you reload... the revolver is king... unless you like to spend half your time looking around for brass that the self shucker threw all over the place.

I like handguns.. I realize and hope that if I need to use it socialy that 7 feet will be the distance. I have a 340 pd in 357 that weighs 12 oz and fits in my front pocket... no semi auto comes close to this and with 5 rounds of 125 federals... it is all that should be needed. No guessing at how to fire the thing. No guessing if it is not only loaded but ready to fire.

For a very narrow range of uses the semi auto is the best thing you can get. but... as masher says.. at 7 feet and in a fight... anything you can get a shot off quickly with will do. If you have to fumble around with an unfamiliar semi auto.. you are dead.

If you go out plinking at distance with a guy who has a magnum revolver.. you will be humiliated... If you reload your own ammo you will be limited and frustrated... and if you are not total slob.. half your shooting time will be spent looking for all the brass your self shucker through all over the countryside.

I like semi autos.. I trust my kimber.. it is a fine gun and accurate if a little puny in the power thing... it operates in a very narrow range tho for all the fun things I like to do with handguns.

Both semi autos and revolvers are more than a hundred years old in design... new semi autos and new revolvers are being designed and sold every year.

If I could only have one type for everything... it would be the wheel gun hands down.. there is no other real choice.

If all I ever shot was plates... and winning meant shooting em as many times and as fast as possible... I would have a semi auto.

If I carried a battle rifle at all times and used a pistol as a last ditch only defensive weapon in severe weather and terrain conditions... I might go with a semi auto.

for the real world tho.. I don't want to be limited as badly as semi autos limit a persons shooting.

lazs

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #110 on:** April 06, 2007, 09:01:28 AM »

This is REALLY funny. A bunch of pompous goobers measuring their pee-pee length by the type of action of their favorite firearm. And looking incredibly stupid in the process.

Dago · « **Reply #111 on:** April 06, 2007, 09:09:32 AM »

Lazs, you and I have had this discussion over and over. It really gets to be a subjective choice.

Maybe you can shoot a revolver faster, my Colt Commander (the first of the handgun I bought when I was 16 and still one of my favorites) fires at the rate of 5 rounds per second, fast enough for me. Maybe you can reload faster, but you will be reloading after 6 rounds, my Sig holds 12 rounds, so while you are reloading, I am still shooting. I perfer to be able to shoot, rather than standing around swinging open a cylinder, dumping brass, pushing new rounds in, and closing a cylinder.

You think a .45 isn't strong enough? It is plenty for everything I would need a handgun for.

I don't need to shoot a "magnum", I have shot them, normally excessive recoil and noise is the most noticable factor. The few people I have known that fixate on having a "magnum" have without exception been those who are trying to compensate for some inferiority issue. A variation on the small man syndrome.

Sorry you have trouble figuring out how to shoot autos as you mentioned, I find they work pretty similar, and the overwhelming majority drop a mag the same way, load the same way, and rack a slide the same way. Pretty sure I could do it with the overwhelming majority without any training. Even my Luger is pretty darn easy to work.

I don't care what someone prefers. I do get bugged when the revolver lovers feel they just have to come on this board and tell outright lies to try to make semi-autos look bad, or revolvers look good.

(like "inaccurate, revolvers never jam, too many moving parts, hard to conceal etc etc).

Why do you guys get so desperate to defend your revolvers you need to do that?

Try to see if I have told a lie about semi-autos or revolvers.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #112 on:** April 06, 2007, 09:14:40 AM »

My dad keeps one chamber of his revolver empty so he doesnt shoot his foot off incase he drops it.

Xargos · « **Reply #113 on:** April 06, 2007, 09:21:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This is REALLY funny. A bunch of pompous goobers measuring their pee-pee length by the type of action of their favorite firearm. And looking incredibly stupid in the process.

Yea, I guess your right Capt. I'll never switch back to autos anyway.

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #114 on:** April 06, 2007, 10:07:11 AM »

Not to derail you guys, but...

I'd like to know, If the Poly-Frame Semi-Auto's wear out the frame to slide areas quicker. If you wear them out, what is the fix??? A new frame? Is there some other way of fixing them than that? How many rounds can go through a Poly gun before wear is a problem?

john9001 · « **Reply #115 on:** April 06, 2007, 10:22:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Not to derail you guys, but...

I'd like to know, If the Poly-Frame Semi-Auto's wear out the frame to slide areas quicker. If you wear them out, what is the fix??? A new frame? Is there some other way of fixing them than that? How many rounds can go through a Poly gun before wear is a problem?

in the new S&W M&P the slide rides on metal blocks on the frame and they are replaceable. I do not know about other poly framed guns.

Dago · « **Reply #116 on:** April 06, 2007, 11:04:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Not to derail you guys, but...

I'd like to know, If the Poly-Frame Semi-Auto's wear out the frame to slide areas quicker. If you wear them out, what is the fix??? A new frame? Is there some other way of fixing them than that? How many rounds can go through a Poly gun before wear is a problem?

There is something just wrong with plastic guns to me. I think the glock is the ugliest gun ever made. It might be a nice gun, shoot well etc, but that kind of ugly would prevent me from owning one. If given one, I would sell it.

Terror · « **Reply #117 on:** April 06, 2007, 01:33:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Not to derail you guys, but...

I'd like to know, If the Poly-Frame Semi-Auto's wear out the frame to slide areas quicker. If you wear them out, what is the fix??? A new frame? Is there some other way of fixing them than that? How many rounds can go through a Poly gun before wear is a problem?

I have fired a Glock17 with over 100,000 rounds through it with all original parts. Wasn't mine, but it was still running with no problems.

Most of the Glock's wear points are metal on metal. The Glock's rail is metal so the poly doesn't directly wear where it meets the slide. I have heard of the metal rail parts failing on some Glock22/23s, but Glock has said they will replace those frames at no cost. Turned out a metal bending machine was putting a square bend to the rail rather than a rounded bend.

Terror

PS Edit for spelling...

Halo · « **Reply #118 on:** April 06, 2007, 01:33:13 PM »

I don't care for Glocks, but for me the Springfield XD .45 ACP got everything right.

The XD supposedly has many of the best features of designs such as Glock, SIG, and 1911. Chuck Taylor calls it "the first true 21st century pistol." The XD has been chosen Handgun of the Year by both the American Rifleman magazine and The Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence.

The XD is certainly worth a look-see by every shooter.

This thread made me realize I have a fairly unique way of cocking the XD and other pistols, which was vital to learn in spite of all the usual wuss wisecracks.
While I value experience as much as anyone, it's always helpful to remember the circus maxim "You're only as good as your last performance," and also the consolation and encouragement "The only shot that counts is the next one."

Terror · « **Reply #119 on:** April 06, 2007, 01:38:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago
There is something just wrong with plastic guns to me. I think the glock is the ugliest gun ever made. It might be a nice gun, shoot well etc, but that kind of ugly would prevent me from owning one. If given one, I would sell it.

Making a gun decision on pure looks is just foreign to me. Seems someone would make judgements on a firearms capabilities and then *maybe" looks rather than looks then capabilities. I would rather have a firearm that is ugly and extremely reliable than one that looks beautiful but jams every 500 rounds (or even every 1000 rounds).

Not saying that a pretty gun won't shoot well, but why say "No" to a good shooting gun just because it's ugly? Makes no sense....

Terror