Chambering Semiauto First Shots

[lasersailor184]

Wait, you're not strong enough to rack the slide?  That doesn't seem right.



Also, Mash, we had previously polished the feed ramp.  I had an absolutely ****ty mag that would have trouble feeding wolf, and other cheaper ammos.  But it could feed decent ammo, and the other mags we had didn't have a problem.

[Halo]

(quote)  Wait, you're not strong enough to rack the slide? That doesn't seem right.  (unquote)

I'm in good shape but you know how things go physically -- some things come naturally and some don't.  I can barely rack the slide with with both hands facing forward and my arms extemded

It feels much easier and more efficient to hold the pistol with my left hand facing backward on the grip, tuck it in toward my chest, and then rack the slide back with my right hand.

I've seen other shooters who also seem to gravitate to this method.  It gives strong opposing forces since I'm pulling in opposite directions rather than one hand being passive while the other does all the work.  

Different strokes for different folks.

This is a better description of what works for me than previous.  It's much easier to do than describe.

[FrodeMk3]

On a note...

You should be somewhat careful in the handling of your mags. If you drop one on the top magazine 'lips', You can damage the mag to where it won't load into the well properly, or allow the slide to strip rounds outta the mag as it cycles.

About a year and a half ago I went shopping for a semi-auto, something in the .40 S&W- to .45 ACP category. After looking at quite a few offerings all through the different price ranges(Kimber, Glock, a Taurus, S&W, Even a Springfield XD) I decided on...A Ruger P345.

The price was more affordable, although I had to settle for a gun with a Poly Frame( Not a problem after 250 rnds., but I still kinda wish I'd went Metal-Framed)I passed up a XD for it. Partly, the Springfield they had was a .45 GAP. I knew nothing of this round, aside from the guy behind the counter saying that even though the case was shorter, propellant advances gave it almost the same ballistics as a .45 ACP.

I've been more than happy with the ruger, but only time will tell with it. It's a simple gun, very easy to fieldstrip/ Put back together and clean. It has good enough accuracy for a gun in it's class. If I wanted a super tackdriver, and had 1,200$ to spend, I'd have gotten a Springfield V-16, But it's not what I was in the market for.

Halo, I do have one question for you. Do you have kids in the house? If you do, then I would include in your loading drill, the time it takes to get the lock off. I live here in Cali. Now, the law says you have to have a lock when you buy a firearm. I keep mine locked, which is a 4" padlock that goes through the weapon with the slide locked back and no magazine in the well. I always keep the key within 2' feet of me, even when I sleep. I've drilled with it, and you can get the lock off fairly quickly...But you always wonder when that lock may choose that moment to jam, or the key to snap off.

I'm not advocating that you DON'T use a lock...But, If it's a factor where you live, It is something else you should consider.

P.S. When the gun IS locked up, or you are locking it up, careful feeding the lock through, you could potentially damage internal parts, increasing the chance of failure.

[Halo]

(quote)  Halo, I do have one question for you. Do you have kids in the house? If you do, then I would include in your loading drill, the time it takes to get the lock off.   (unquote)

No, the kids are long gone and grown with their own kids.  Just the wife and myself.  

On the lock question, I've never used gun locks.  I think they're mostly political.  I've talked to several guys who lament how difficult locks have made it for them to get their guns ready in a contingency.

People have their own home defense comfort zones.  Mine is unloaded gun in one out of sight place, ammo in another out of sight place, periodic drills (now including Snap-Caps) to make sure I can quickly get the gun functional in pitch dark confusion.  

I've also become a believer in laser/light attached to XD .45 ACP.  Best home defense and plinking system I've ever had, by far.  

Careful people did fine in the pre-lock era, and do fine now too.  Like many here on Aces High, I introduced my kids to guns at an early age (around 8 to 10) to satisfy their curiosity and to impress on them how dangerous guns are unless always handled with the utmost caution and safety.

While the kids were home, I had .22 rifles on a gun rack in the den, and a .357 revolver that was the main home defense.  I kept the bullets away from the guns and never allowed a loaded gun in the house.

The kids knew where the guns were and probably the bullets too.  But we never had any problems.  I always told them if they EVER handled any of the guns without me being there, they would never touch a gun again.

Conversely, anything they wanted to know about guns, or whenever they wanted to look at the guns or handle them, all they had to do was ask me, and I would demonstrate or supervise whatever they wanted to learn.  They were never to handle a gun unless I was there and authorized it.  Guns were and are part of the general tools and implements of our household.  

I drilled safety into them every time we got near a gun, and took them to target practice and plinking a couple times a year.  They grew up proud they knew about guns and respectful of what guns could do.

None of us hunt, so we don't kill anything.  If we would eat the game, fine, we'd kill it.  Just no wanton killing.  If we lived rural and had varmints, fine, we'd kill them as necessary.  But we've always been suburban.  

I inbued them with the usual litany of how guns are a responsibility of free people and we have the right to self defense.  We're fortunate to have a great military and law enforcement system, but if the worst happens, we most likely would have to take care of ourselves until help arrives.  That's among the most important facts of life.  

My oldest daughter has succumbed to her husband's family's traditions of no guns (and they're Jewish -- go figure!).  My son and youngest daughter enjoy guns and are training their kids as they were trained.

It's a different world now with the system in some states ready to hang citizens who don't keep their guns locked up to the point they would be useless or seriously compromised if needed in an emergency.  It's the usual reaction to some unfortunate accidents, and it's also a ploy of the faction that would make guns totally illegal if they could (then only the establishment and criminals would have guns, a very unhealthy situation).  We would reduce the traffic slaughter too if we just locked up our vehicles.  

Sorry for rambling, but the family and gun lock question needs this perspective.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Halo
(quote)  Wait, you're not strong enough to rack the slide? That doesn't seem right.  (unquote)

I'm in good shape but you know how things go physically -- some things come naturally and some don't.  I can barely rack the slide with with both hands facing forward and my arms extemded

It feels much easier and more efficient to hold the pistol with my left hand facing backward on the grip, tuck it in toward my chest, and then rack the slide back with my right hand.

I've seen other shooters who also seem to gravitate to this method.  It gives strong opposing forces since I'm pulling in opposite directions rather than one hand being passive while the other does all the work.  

Different strokes for different folks.

This is a better description of what works for me than previous.  It's much easier to do than describe.

I don't have any trouble chambering the first round in any of my autos.


I have taught a fair amount of people to shoot over the years.  The way I teach the people who have trouble yanking the slide back with an thumb and forefinger on the serations is to have them clamp their left and on the slide ahead of the ejection port, then push with their right hand on the grip using the whole arm in a pushing motion.

[Halo]

That's a good technique.  About the same as mine except hands are reversed.   I prefer to keep both hands back on the gun rather than either near the barrel.  I get a better grip on the back part of the slide away from the ejection port.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Halo
(quote)  Halo, I do have one question for you. Do you have kids in the house? If you do, then I would include in your loading drill, the time it takes to get the lock off.   (unquote)

No, the kids are long gone and grown with their own kids.  Just the wife and myself.  

On the lock question, I've never used gun locks.  I think they're mostly political.  I've talked to several guys who lament how difficult locks have made it for them to get their guns ready in a contingency.

People have their own home defense comfort zones.  Mine is unloaded gun in one out of sight place, ammo in another out of sight place, periodic drills (now including Snap-Caps) to make sure I can quickly get the gun functional in pitch dark confusion.  

I've also become a believer in laser/light attached to XD .45 ACP.  Best home defense and plinking system I've ever had, by far.  

Careful people did fine in the pre-lock era, and do fine now too.  Like many here on Aces High, I introduced my kids to guns at an early age (around 8 to 10) to satisfy their curiosity and to impress on them how dangerous guns are unless always handled with the utmost caution and safety.

While the kids were home, I had .22 rifles on a gun rack in the den, and a .357 revolver that was the main home defense.  I kept the bullets away from the guns and never allowed a loaded gun in the house.

The kids knew where the guns were and probably the bullets too.  But we never had any problems.  I always told them if they EVER handled any of the guns without me being there, they would never touch a gun again.

Conversely, anything they wanted to know about guns, or whenever they wanted to look at the guns or handle them, all they had to do was ask me, and I would demonstrate or supervise whatever they wanted to learn.  They were never to handle a gun unless I was there and authorized it.  Guns were and are part of the general tools and implements of our household.  

I drilled safety into them every time we got near a gun, and took them to target practice and plinking a couple times a year.  They grew up proud they knew about guns and respectful of what guns could do.

None of us hunt, so we don't kill anything.  If we would eat the game, fine, we'd kill it.  Just no wanton killing.  If we lived rural and had varmints, fine, we'd kill them as necessary.  But we've always been suburban.  

I inbued them with the usual litany of how guns are a responsibility of free people and we have the right to self defense.  We're fortunate to have a great military and law enforcement system, but if the worst happens, we most likely would have to take care of ourselves until help arrives.  That's among the most important facts of life.  

My oldest daughter has succumbed to her husband's family's traditions of no guns (and they're Jewish -- go figure!).  My son and youngest daughter enjoy guns and are training their kids as they were trained.

It's a different world now with the system in some states ready to hang citizens who don't keep their guns locked up to the point they would be useless or seriously compromised if needed in an emergency.  It's the usual reaction to some unfortunate accidents, and it's also a ploy of the faction that would make guns totally illegal if they could (then only the establishment and criminals would have guns, a very unhealthy situation).  We would reduce the traffic slaughter too if we just locked up our vehicles.  

Sorry for rambling, but the family and gun lock question needs this perspective.

Thats how I was brought up. I still think it's the way to go.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Halo
That's a good technique.  About the same as mine except hands are reversed.   I prefer to keep both hands back on the gun rather than either near the barrel.

I like being able to look down and see the rounds in the mag, so I can watch them go into the chamber, but I can see not wanting your hands near the barrel.

[eagl]

I have no problem at all chambering the first round.  With most modern semi-auto handguns, this is not much different than having a loaded revolver with rounds in the current chamber AND the next one.

Standard military practice with the beretta 9mm is to have a round in the chamber with the safety off, and that's how I carry it when I'm armed while on duty.  For personal carry, I usually have the safety engaged when carrying my beretta .40 but I still have a round in the chamber.  Of course, I do not routinely carry that gun for personal defense and if I get a concealed carry permit, any gun I carry will be ready to go by simply squeezing the trigger.

In a situation where you need to use a handgun to protect yourself, any fiddling around with safetys and chambering a round is likely to get you killed.  In situations where you're just carrying around a gun for whatever reason that is not for personal protection, there is still no reason to not chamber a round unless you're a total spaz or anticipate an untrained person getting their hands on the weapon.  If you really think you need to carry a gun without a round in the chamber, you should probably not be carrying it at all because it's little more than an expensive hammer at that point.

[Halo]

Heh, you're right, GtoRA2.  I also want a good view of whether a cartridge is anywhere near entering the barrel.  Now I'll be up all night doing contortions trying to devise the ultimate slide work.  

[eagl]

I should mention one thing - some weapons are no-kidding HOT anytime there is a round in the chamber, and those weapons should not be carried with a round chambered.  The browning buckmark is one such model.  The gun automatically ***** whenever a round is chambered, there is no way to de-**** the gun without pulling the trigger, the trigger is typically very light because that gun is popular for target shooting, and if you inadvertently forget to set the safety or flick the safety off, you might blow a hole in your foot or leg (or wall or friend or...)  I do not recommend using a holster with a buckmark unless you are very careful to never chamber a round until you intend to shoot, and never ever holster or put away the gun without unloading it because that particular design is not very safe when a round is chambered.

It's rather like carrying around a revolver with the hammer cocked back...  Not the smartest thing to do and definately not something you want to carry around in a holster.

[Halo]

(quote)  In a situation where you need to use a handgun to protect yourself, any fiddling around with safetys and chambering a round is likely to get you killed. In situations where you're just carrying around a gun for whatever reason that is not for personal protection, there is still no reason to not chamber a round unless you're a total spaz or anticipate an untrained person getting their hands on the weapon. If you really think you need to carry a gun without a round in the chamber, you should probably not be carrying it at all because it's little more than an expensive hammer at that point.  (unquote)

You're right, eagl.  Good people have been pounding that at me ever since I first mentioned a gun topic on Aces High.  Somehow I've been in extreme denial, thinking I somehow would be safer if I just didn't chamber a round.

Duh.  Chamber the round.  Keep my finger OFF and AWAY from the trigger unless I ever need to pull it.  

With my ultra conservative defense posture, I would have been dead any time I ever would have confronted a determined intruder.  

Boy, some people take a long time to train, don't they?

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by eagl
I should mention one thing - some weapons are no-kidding HOT anytime there is a round in the chamber, and those weapons should not be carried with a round chambered.  The browning buckmark is one such model.  The gun automatically ***** whenever a round is chambered, there is no way to de-**** the gun without pulling the trigger, the trigger is typically very light because that gun is popular for target shooting, and if you inadvertently forget to set the safety or flick the safety off, you might blow a hole in your foot or leg (or wall or friend or...)  I do not recommend using a holster with a buckmark unless you are very careful to never chamber a round until you intend to shoot, and never ever holster or put away the gun without unloading it because that particular design is not very safe when a round is chambered.

It's rather like carrying around a revolver with the hammer cocked back...  Not the smartest thing to do and definately not something you want to carry around in a holster.

I don't trust any pistol where I can't see the hammer.

[Halo]

(quote) some weapons are no-kidding HOT anytime there is a round in the chamber, and those weapons should not be carried with a round chambered. The browning buckmark is one such model.  (unquote)

eagl, you hereby are deputized as guardian angel.  I have a Buckmark and it is as you say -- very sensitive on the trigger.  Great gun, and fortunately I use it only for plinking and never have occasion to carry it holstered.  

Thanks again.

[eagl]

Halo,

I'm not being sarcastic at all when I say that people who don't feel comfortable with handling a loaded gun should probably sell the gun and buy a short but heavy baseball bat.  There isn't anything wrong with using a bat instead of a gun, and for some people that's the best solution.

If you have a gun though, like you say it probably ought to be useful as a gun.  With kids out of the house, I really don't think there is any safety benefit at all to keeping it unloaded and in fact it may be more hazardous because you will be training yourself to pick up and handle *unloaded* guns.  That means if you end up picking up a loaded gun or get distracted and your mental process resets, you could find yourself firing off a round unintentionally because you've trained your mind to consider guns to be unloaded until you carry out a specific act to load them.  That is an unsafe habit.

Instead, you should train yourself to consider ALL guns as being loaded until you carry out a specific act to unload them and make them safe.  Ironically, this makes a loaded gun safer than an unloaded gun because with a loaded gun, you KNOW it could go off.  With an unloaded gun, you don't know anything until you pull the trigger or take some other action to ensure it's status, because even though you *know* it's unloaded, maybe someone else loaded it or you forgot to unload it the last time you handled it.

That's how people get killed in gun accidents, training themselves to handle unloaded guns instead of loaded ones.