Rudder Pedals vs. twisty stick

[uberhun]

Started out with Saitek twisty. It is hard to be accurate.
Switched to X45 rocker also Saitek. Better but still does not feel right.
Bought Saitek pedals........... Big difference!

[Logan6]

interesting read, thanks for posting this.

[Simaril]

Logan:

you've heard from some guys who are truly very good pilots. I'll chime in with the voice of the average guy from the peanut gallery.

I do NOT have intrinsic gamer skill, and I didn't grow up with video game hand-eye coordination like my kds have. I never could pat my head vertically and rub my belly in a circle at the same time. I'm in the game because I just love planes, and WW2 combat aviation history in particular.

And I found pedals to be a MAJOR help for my game. Maybe because I don't have that instinctive coordination, I was OFTEN accidentally inputting rudder when I moved the joystick -- a lot like when we lean to the side to make the plane roll faster! Other times I'd find that I couldnt keep up with squaddies haveing the same plane and loadout, again probably because I was accidentally ruddering one way and balancing with airelon to "look" straight.

With pedals I have a much easier time getting my body to work right, to give the correct input for what moves I'm trying to make. I still feel hamfisted, but having the better controllers means I have more space for imprecision. I don't expect myslef to be as precise as the gifted ones, and the pedals give me more range of motion -- which minimizes overcontrolling.

So yeah, I bought the CH ones, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[PanzerIV]

I tried a twist-stick and hated it, I had the tendency to try turning by twist rather than correctly. Maybe I just like the twistyness too much?

[Domin]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'll do my part to dispell the myth, but I gave up trying to persuade people to use pedals.  It's not as if I'll lose anything if they use twist sticks instead; they'll be that much easier for me to shoot down.  If they lack the common sense to make the connection between real airplane controls and gaming controllers, then they deserve to have a hard time flying (especially when people who have flown real aircraft explain it and are ignored).

So, yeah, hold on to your twist sticks, suckers.  I'll see you in the skies.

Bighorn uses a twist stick, try dueling him

[Benny Moore]

I'll do that, if he will.  He might win, but if that's the case, then he'd have won even better with pedals.

[Domin]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
I'll do that, if he will.  He might win, but if that's the case, then he'd have won even better with pedals.

Well I started with twisty, bought CH pedals, then went back  to x52 twisty.
I think it really does just depend. I didn't care for the pedals.  Many of the better duelers that I have talked to use twisty. AND NO, I'm not implying that there are not a lot of good sticks with pedals, there are many.

I think pedals are very MA friendly. For dueling it seems (IMO so no body freak out) twist gives me better precision in say very tight rolling scissors etc. Now in the real world (or maybe the MA for that matter) 2 pilots getting into a very tight 60+ second rolling scissors probably isn't going to happen to often.

[B@tfinkV]

i would use pedals if i had the time and spare money.

[Domin]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i would use pedals if i had the time and spare money.

Don't get spoiled, be happy with your sidewinder.

[Sincraft]

well in my experience limited to less than 1 hour, I can say I think I prefer the twisty stick a bit more!!!!!!!

UGH, been waiting for these farking pedals for a long time too.

CH.  Seem pretty sturdy... but I like to sit weird so this is a bit of a change for me.

So, I figured I'll give them a shot before  I box them up as obviously I went into them with a negative tone.

So, after flying I realized two huge things.
1. I have no extra ability in maneuverability what so ever.  My twisty is pretty good sooo.
2. I can't fine aim at ground or air targets nearly as well.  The muscle want to move a MINIMUM amount and you actually end up using your opposite leg to retard the movement so you don't 'overshoot' your correction.
Not sure how to explain it, but there is some funk there.

I'm going to give them a good months try, keep them around for a racing game possibly if I get one, or just toss them on ebay when it's all said and done if I don't find a blatant purpose for them vs a twisty.

[The Fugitive]

I've had my CH pedals "forever" and wouldn't give them up for anything. Yes it will take a bit of getting use to, but in the long run they are great. Adjusting the scaling is important, I believe Murdr posted a picture of how his are set on the boards.

 Mine are set pretty much the same way as his, the 0 slider is about a third of the way up from the bottom, the next 4 (10-40) are a "half a button head" higher than the on before it, then the rest are evenly spaced to finish the arc top the top.

It might be easier to "search" for Murdrs picture  

[Murdr]

[stantond]

Rudder pedals provide a level of fine control I never experienced with a wrist twist stick.  This has helped in gunnery and minimizing drag.   I can perform maneuvers using the rudder pedals that I could not perform using a twist rudder.  I appreciate the toe brakes during taxi and on landing as well.   CH products produces very good USB rudder pedals.

Some do well with a twisty sick.  Maybe you are one of them?


Regards,

Malta

[bj229r]

I dearly want a ch rudder/stick setup....mebbe birthday.....best thing I can forsee about pro's/ cons is being able to NOT use rudder unless ya want to---damned hard to apply hard aileron OR hard rudder in a fight and not put in a smidgen of the other. I was at Kak3's house a few years ago, and tried out his setup (he had no rudder at all, as I recall)--was night and day how easy it was to keep plane on target without the unwanted control surfaces coming into play

[Gumbeau]

I always enjoy this question.

I began flying real airplanes 23 years ago. They all have rudder pedals.

In a real airplane, unless you are on the ground taxiing, you apply pressure to the rudder more than actually move it very much. The same is true for all of the flight control in normal high speed flight.

In aerobatics or combat ACM it then becomes a matter of strength and leverage. Two hands on the stick and the big leg muscles  to horse the controls around.

In virtual flying there is no real feel. It is much closer to fly by wire than a real airplane.

Fine control wins the day every time online.

The lighter the touch on the stick, the better control over the virtual aircraft.

There is a pretty big brain disconnect when using very fine stick movements in combination with rather coarse rudder pedal displacement in the virtual world.

Your legs and feet just don't have the same motor control that your hands do unless you practice playing the guitar with your toes or something.

A twisty stick, once you become accustomed to its use, is actually more natural than coordinating feet and hands.

I've only used Sidewinder equipment in over 10 years of virtual flying. Tried pedals a few times and even though I'm very used to using my feet while flying (thousands of taildragger hours and some aerobatics experience) I prefer the twisty rudder in virtual flying. I imagine I would prefer the twisty rudder in real airplanes by a wide margin also.

Rudder pedals were always a compromise solution in airplanes. The flight controls in general are always a compromise in real airplanes. For the most part they suck. The ideal control is a sidestick fly by wire control because it has no limitation on its range of motion. This is not true with floor mounted sticks or ANY yoke. Something is always in the way.

I can remember many full cross control slips in the Beech 18 that were difficult to accomplish because of the need for full leg extension and full opposite aileron on the side mounted column yoke. With a twisty that same full body gyration is possible with a slight deflection of the wrist.

With a floor mounted stick and rudder pedals the leg opposite the applied rudder HAS to bend and it gets in the way of the stick, preventing full application of the stick in some aircraft.

In the arena its easy to spot someone using rudder pedals because in the heat of the fight they over control the rudder, which loads up the drag on the airplane. It is a rare virtual pilot that can effectively coordinate heavy leg muscles on CH pedals with finesse on the stick under a good adrenaline rush.

Using rudder pedals forces the virtual pilot to desensitize his stick settings to match the lack of fine control in the pedals.

With my twisty I can fly with all the sliders at 100 percent because I'm flying with only my fingertips and my brain doesn't have to reconcile the coarse leg movements with fine hand movements.