Author Topic: For all you rabid environmentalists  (Read 4351 times)

Offline Stegahorse

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« on: June 04, 2007, 04:49:06 PM »
Mars is Warming

If Mars is warming up, then the Earth warming ain't a human effect!
:O :O :O :O :O
I thought I was important until I got Cancer and had to go to a cancer clinic.

Offline Denholm

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2007, 05:23:01 PM »
Get your Daily Dose of Flame!
FlameThink.com
No. 603 Squadron... Visit us on the web, if you dare.

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Offline lazs2

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2007, 08:34:04 AM »
yep... the "scientists" will say anything to explain the warming of mars from "plantetary tilt" to "core shifts" to whatever...  anything but the big yellow ball that heats both planets...

There is no grants... no money and no power in saying that the sun is making things hotter and cooler.   since mars has no co2... how can it be heating?  

Lets just ignore mars tho before people realize that...

ITS THE SUN STUPID

The environmentalists are getting desperate.   I am sure that they know that we are about due to go into a cooling cycle in the next few years... they are desperate to hid the data and get laws and grants passed so that they (and co2) can take credit for the global cooling...

I have faith tho... people have been showing resistance to their scams.   They may have gone too far.... no one seems panicked anymore...  The hoax has about run its course in my opinion...

More and more people are saying "nice theory but how do you explain...?"

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2007, 09:05:09 AM »
maybe I should have been more clear... mars does not have enough C02 for it to be considered a "greenhouse gas"   we don't either but what the heck.. If you are going to create a hoax you need to make it a big one.

sooo...  an atmosphere that is thick and full of co2 is heating at the same rate as sun activity...  another planet with co2 but really... no atmosphere to speak of is also heating at the same rate...

Yet... in the planet with the thick atmosphere the scientists are blaming the co2 and ignoring.... no... hiding from.. the fact that the sun is doing the same thing to both planets..

They won't even consider it.   And how could they?   it would kill the golden grant goose and the spots on good morning America and their 15 minutes of fame and fortune.   I mean... what can you do about the frigging sun right?

They have to hustle tho.. people are not getting as scared as needed to get some laws passed and grants handed out.

When people find out what it will cost em.. the theories of co2 and such start sounding even weaker.

lazs

storch

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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2007, 09:42:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ferndale
Wrong again - the CO2 component in the earth's atmosphere is only  0.038%, according to Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere

It doesn't sound like much, but without it the earth would be much colder/less hospitable. But the reverse is true - too much of it, and the earth overheats....
and what causes this unwanted overheating?  hmmm?

Offline Dowding

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2007, 12:44:22 PM »
... and more plant life dying in any given year due to a change in solar activity?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2007, 01:06:45 PM »
did anybody ask the Dinosaurs what they think of this "global warming"

Offline john9001

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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2007, 01:10:45 PM »
whats wrong with warming? you like ice and snow?

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2007, 02:06:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ferndale
- apparently it does not agree with various species in the food chain. Oh, and some countries would become submerged/uninhabitable. But these are generally small, "insignificant" countries where the first language is not English and where there is no oil. So nothing to worry about. :aok

and how is this different over the last 200 million or so years?   Either adapt or perish.  I may not know whether or not the climate will or will not  change significantly over the next 10 to 100 years but I do know this,  no Man (or woman) can or will ever be able to change or halt anything this planet does, and anything they try to do to "fix" it will only end up making things worse somewhere else.  We are all on the path to extinction.   save all that money and spend it on beer and nachos and get over it.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2007, 02:09:49 PM »
ferndale... you are still missing the point.. if matters not how much co2 makes up  whatever type of atmosphere..   the sun heats em all up.

ITS THE SUN STUPID

lazs

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2007, 02:21:41 PM »
Ferndale, why just worry about global warming?  In about 3 billions years the Sun will swell into a red giant and turn the Earth in to a large charcoal briquet.  If we havent killed ourselves off by then that'll sure do it.  
Quick better get Al Gore and Michael Moore started now on solving that...  if you're not worried then I guess you're just to short sighted and dont care about the future... what about our great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- grandchildren...

Offline rodeo

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2007, 02:52:14 PM »
Quote
A combination of factors, exacerbated by man made waste products (CO2, water vapor etc.) which stem from the burning of fossil fuels to generate electricity (~37%), power vehicles (~22%) and other purposes.


Hmmm... if that is the case and the claims that the last polar ice melt was 200 million years ago (or whatever) and the same "scientists" claim man hadn't even discovered fire yet - what caused that "global warming?"

Remember when you tell a lie you must remember the original one so that you can cover that lie in the future.

My 2 cents worth.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 02:56:58 PM by rodeo »

Offline tedrbr

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For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2007, 02:58:25 PM »
First, it is always better to read the whole article, and not just the title given to it if you are presenting it as "proof" of your point of view. Follow up scientists make Habibullo Abdussamatov sound like a quack in the article.

Comparing Mars with Earth as part of the global warming debate is just smoke and mirrors on the part of those trying to cloud and dispute the debate.  After all, bad and contradictory data points work just as well as actual scientific proof does..... better in fact if that contradictory proof does not exist.

We've landed five vehicles successfully onto the Martian surface, all smaller than a VW bug.  We've not gotten core samples from Martian ice caps.  We've not had weather data collected on the Martian surface for the past 200 years. We've not had detailed, daily, long term weather data collected from points all over the Martian surface for many decades.  We've not had large, sophisticated weather satellites orbiting Mars for fifty years.

There is no where near enough collected data on Mars weather and global cycles to make the statement that Mars is warming up due to solar activity as a solar system wide effect.  There is also Mar's orbital parameters to consider as they change over time: Perihelion, Aphelion, Orbit inclination, Orbit eccentricity.  Mars does not have the stabilizing effect of a large moon (the "wobble effect" mentioned in the article.

Mar's CO2 atmosphere is very thin even at low elevations, practically a vacuum, what there is is made mostly of carbon dioxide. The surface pressure on Mars is only about 0.7% of the average surface pressure at sea level on Earth.  CO2 effects on Mars are not a comparison to Earth's atmosphere.

Even from the quoted article:
Quote
The conventional theory is that climate changes on Mars can be explained primarily by small alterations in the planet's orbit and tilt, not by changes in the sun.

"Wobbles in the orbit of Mars are the main cause of its climate change in the current era," Oxford's Wilson explained. (Related: "Don't Blame Sun for Global Warming, Study Says" [September 13, 2006].)

All planets experience a few wobbles as they make their journey around the sun. Earth's wobbles are known as Milankovitch cycles and occur on time scales of between 20,000 and 100,000 years.

These fluctuations change the tilt of Earth's axis and its distance from the sun and are thought to be responsible for the waxing and waning of ice ages on Earth.

Mars and Earth wobble in different ways, and most scientists think it is pure coincidence that both planets are between ice ages right now.

"Mars has no [large] moon, which makes its wobbles much larger, and hence the swings in climate are greater too," Wilson said.


So someone pays a scientist to put his name of a controversial paper, that goes against what is known about Mars as a means to cloud the global warming issue as it pertains to planet Earth.

The list of successful Mars missions include:
1964     Mariner 4     US (flyby)     Success     Returned 21 images
1969     Mariner 6     US (flyby)     Success     Returned 75 images
1969     Mariner 7     US (flyby)     Success     Returned 126 images
1971     Mars 3 Orbiter/Lander     USSR     Success     Orbiter obtained approximately 8 months of data and lander landed safely, but only 20 seconds of data
1971     Mariner 9     US     Success     Returned 7,329 images
1973     Mars 5     USSR     Success     Returned 60 images; only lasted 9 days
1973     Mars 6 Orbiter/Lander     USSR     Success/Failure     Occultation experiment produced data and Lander failure on descent
1975     Viking 1 Orbiter/Lander     US     Success     Located landing site for Lander and first successful landing on Mars
1975     Viking 2 Orbiter/Lander     US     Success     Returned 16,000 images and extensive atmospheric data and soil experiments
1996     Mars Global Surveyor     US     Success     More images than all Mars Missions
1996     Mars Pathfinder     US     Success     Technology experiment lasting 5 times longer than warranty
2001     Mars Odyssey     US     Success     High resolution images of Mars
2003     Mars Express Orbiter/Beagle 2 Lander     ESA     Success/Failure     Orbiter imaging Mars in detail and lander lost on arrival
2003     Mars Exploration Rover - Spirit     US     Success     Over 70,000 images lasting 8 times longer than warranty
2003     Mars Exploration Rover - Opportunity     US     Success     Over 58,000 images lasting 8 times longer than warranty
2005     Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter     US     Results TBD

Offline Airscrew

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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2007, 03:20:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
We've landed five vehicles successfully onto the Martian surface, all smaller than a VW bug.  We've not gotten core samples from Martian ice caps.  We've not had weather data collected on the Martian surface for the past 200 years. We've not had detailed, daily, long term weather data collected from points all over the Martian surface for many decades.  We've not had large, sophisticated weather satellites orbiting Mars for fifty years.

There is no where near enough collected data on Mars weather and global cycles to make the statement that Mars is warming up due to solar activity as a solar system wide effect.  There is also Mar's orbital parameters to consider as they change over time: Perihelion, Aphelion, Orbit inclination, Orbit eccentricity.  Mars does not have the stabilizing effect of a large moon (the "wobble effect" mentioned in the article.


 The Earth is estimated to be around 4 billion years old, give or take a couple of birthdays, if you asked the Earth she'd probably say 29...  anyhow.  So 200 years of weather observation, data collected from weather satellites for the last 50 years, data drawn from surveys for the last what (60 years or so) and then saying you understand a 4 billion year old planet and weather system is any better?  I dont see it,  I would say There is no where near enough collected data on Earth's weather and global cycles to make the statement that Earth is warming up due to any activity.  It maybe be warming up but I dont think we really understand why...

What is particulary funny to me is using that argument to discount the intrepation of the Mars data but ignoring that argument when discussing the Earth's data

Offline L'EMMERDEUR

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Re: For all you rabid environmentalists
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2007, 03:28:21 PM »
"If Mars is warming up, then the Earth warming ain't a human effect!
:O :O :O :O :O"

"ITS THE SUN STUPID"

Where's that childhood understanding thread when we need it?