Author Topic: forget gun control... (Read 2406 times)

lazs2 · « **on:** June 30, 2007, 09:20:49 AM »

I mean, before we can even talk about something as insane as gun control we have to realize that...

Any people who would allow their government to make em wear seatbelts and helmets is a doomed people anyway.

lazs

eagl · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2007, 11:22:24 AM »

whazza matter Lazs? Get ticketed by the uniformed nannies?

lazs2 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2007, 11:33:49 AM »

nope... I have put over 50,000 miles on the Lincoln without ever putting on the seatbelt.

I am just stating that if we can't even stand up for individual rights on something as simple and basic as this we have no chance... we allow our selves to be told what is for our own individual good... it is insane. It is like we are too ignorant to make up our own minds about risk. It puts no other person save the wearer (or non wearer) in danger.

lazs

Maverick · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2007, 11:39:22 AM »

Laz, you don't even have a right to drive. It's a priveledge, not a right. That's why it's licensed.

eagl · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2007, 11:57:42 AM »

Lazs,

You know it but you won't admit it, but it's also not just for your personal protection. It's for the millions of $$$ spent every year out of taxpayer funds on medical care for people who get injured in car accidents and don't have enough medical insurance to cover the required care. It is a proven fact that helmet and seatbelt use significantly reduces injuries and the cost of post-accident medical care.

The real problem of course is that the bleeding hearts in this country feel that uninsured people who suffer injuries due to being stupid or stubborn still deserve to benefit from publicly funded health care. Until that attitude changes (hint - it won't), we'll see helmet and seatbelt laws that are aimed at reducing the drain on public funds caused by stupid or stubborn people who refuse to protect themselves and don't have enough money to pay for their own medical bills after an accident.

john9001 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:01:47 PM »

driving is a skill, not a privilege.

people say it's a privilege because that's what the govt has told them.

eagl · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:07:28 PM »

And for anyone who says "well, I'm insured so I should be able to do whatever I want", I call BS. Nobody but Bill Gates (and others with a similiar amount of money) has enough insurance to cover a lifetime of assisted living following brain injuries caused by not wearing a helmet or seatbelts. That means that after the insurance runs out, someone needing that kind of help is either on the street or suckling at the public fund teat.

I'm not allowed to refuse to pay for those people's medical care, so I do feel that the only alternative, attempting to limit those kinds of preventable drains on society, is pretty reasonable.

I know you will disagree, but these kinds of laws aren't my first choice either. But given the realistic options of having no laws and paying more and more out of my pocket for other people's stubborn "freedom" choices, or forcing people to use safety devices that are proven to reduce medical costs, I'll go selfish on this one and protect my pocketbook.

Maverick · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:12:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
driving is a skill, not a privilege.

people say it's a privilege because that's what the govt has told them.

The act of driving is a display of an acquired set of skills or a display of stupidity depending on the circumstances and acts being committed.

As to the privilege of driving on a roadway, notice what happens when you try to exercise a privileged you are not authorised to do? Privileges are licensed, restricted and done only with permission of the licensing entity. Rights are not.

lazs2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:13:00 PM »

mav.. there may be some aspects of driving that could be considered a privilidge but... does that give the government the right to regulate every tiny little aspect of what you do while in the car? what does wearing a seatbelt have to do with driving? It does not protect anyone but the wearer who should obviously have the right to choose.

eagl I have my own insurance for medical. I don't use the car insurance medical. any injuries I sustain in the car will be payed by it.

But... are you saying that we have the right to limit freedom in this country based on money?

and... what did you do with the monstrous rebate the insurance company sent you when the seatbelt law went into effect? what are you doing with all the money that you are saving on monthly premiums made by forcing people to wear seatbelts?

The solution is simple... do not require people to wear seatbelts. Simply have the insurance company give discounts for those who do.

by your reasoning... we should be able to outlaw ciggs because they cost you money on life insurance or.. outlaw flying.. or... how bout fatty foods.. Bet fatty foods have killed or crippled more than not wearing seatbelts.. and drinking... what about drinking? surely you reasoning makes it perfectly acceptable to bring back prohibition... reasonable even... Hell.. I don't even drink...

Not many people really drink anymore.. it is too hard to... too many regulations workplace and otherwise... I bet prohibition would fly this time..

We aren't our grandfathers... we are you now. we feel we have the right to tell others how to live based on if it may cost us a few cents.

A new prohibition would cause a lot of crime but no one would squalk... you would of course defend it. It is after all.. for our own good and... it would save billions a year in taxpayers money. Not only that but.. drunks hurt other people.. people who don't wear seatbelts are only a danger to themselves.

lazs

john9001 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2007, 01:01:07 PM »

bring back prohibition, the moonshiners need the income.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2007, 01:06:30 PM »

Again, I find it disturbing that people turn to the government to solve their problems, when they fail to realize that the power is in the wallet.

Repeal the seatbelt laws, then tell Insurance companies that they have the power to deal, or not deal with those that don't wear seatbelts in a manner they see fit.

AKIron · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2007, 01:18:07 PM »

Wearing a seatbelt is a minor discomfort. Giving the government your hard earned money to be wasted by those you voted against is a major pain.

Wolf14 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2007, 01:37:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Wearing a seatbelt is a minor discomfort. Giving the government your hard earned money to be wasted by those you voted against is a major pain.

I totaly agree on that point. Each year I try to get as little back as possible. Bites they take any in the first place, but I figure the less extra I give them the less they have to spend it on something crazy. Granted I could go as far as not giving them enough for that year, but I dont like having to pay either. I always get a chuckle at all these people talking about how much they are getting back. Arent they using the government as a bank and the government aint paying intrest?

As far as seat belts go, I wear them regardless. It just makes me feel safer. I was wearing them back before the law came into effect in my area. I agree with Laz though. Give the power to let the people decide for themselves and let the insurance companies discount those who do.

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2007, 02:26:53 PM »

Origanally posted by eagl
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Quote

The real problem of course is that the bleeding hearts in this country feel that uninsured people who suffer injuries due to being stupid or stubborn still deserve to benefit from publicly funded health care. Until that attitude changes (hint - it won't), we'll see helmet and seatbelt laws that are aimed at reducing the drain on public funds caused by stupid or stubborn people who refuse to protect themselves and don't have enough money to pay for their own medical bills after an accident.

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Now, I've heard that some states are better about this than others, But Litigation lawyers (ambulance chasers) run rampant. Some people that live just down the street from me (Mexican Immigrants of questionable legality)
were driving some old clapped out buicks and chevy's for a long time. Well, one of the junkers dissapeared one day, They had a funeral for a teenage child the next, and about a month later, they drive up in a Brand new Dodge pickup. Seems the kid took the car on a spin, Got wiped out by a drunk driver, and went through the windshield.

The dad was over there, showing all of his friends what was under the hood, while they were all laughing and getting drunk. The kid's mother was showing her friends where they had gotten some new furniture and a TV.

About a week after that, they had a sticker on the truck that said Ramon batista Garza, 1986-2003.

And a license plate frame advertising for the attorney that sued for them.

Now, here's the clincher: Not only did they sue the Drunk Driver, but they sued the city, and won, because the intersection where the accident happened, had all blinking red lights at the time of the accident, due to some kind of maintenance.

Those people wouldn't have hit the city for a couple hundred grand or more, if the damn kid had worn a seatbelt. lasz, I see where you're coming from, but the problem isn't what kind of driver you are, it's the $-sign in their eyes' SOB's that are quick to grieve, and quick to sue. The money amount would have been a lot less if that kid had worn a seatbelt. They had a picture of the car from the accident. The damage was severe to the front end, but the cab was intact enough, that if the boy hadn't have gone out the window, he might have only had seatbelt bruises. And a ticket for driving without a license.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2007, 02:50:32 PM »

You know, I wear my seatbelt every time I get in my truck. Not because it's a law. Not because I'm afraid I'm going to cause an accident or run off the road. I wear it because of the other 10 million IDIOTS who are out there on the road with NO CLUE!!!!!!! I've been in 4 accidents and none of them were my fault. 2 were fairly serious accidents and if it wasn't for my seatbelt I probably would have ended up in the hospital. As it was I walked away with a sore shoulder and hip from both of them. That was it.

I would NEVER ride a motorcycle without putting a helmet on either. Sorry but I belive my brain is worth protecting. Those that don't want to wear a helmet, well I guess they don't consider their brains worth protecting.

I personaly think anyone who doesn't USE a SAFETY device that is built into a vehicle or is offered as an option is plain stupid. Seeing as how driving isn't a right, your arugment about the government infringing on your rights by making and enforcing seatbelt laws is just as stupid as not wearing one in the first place.

BUT if your that fired up about it how about this as an alternative. If you choose to not wear a seatbelt or helmet, you MUST first sign a Do Not Resucitate order and have it on file. That way when you do smear yourself all over the road, the rest of us don't have to worry about picking up the medical fees because you were do damn stupid to use a safety device that was put there to save your life. That way you can feel FREE to be an idiot and the rest of use can go on about our lifes not having to worry about you.