Russian Navy - Secrets of the Kursk

[FrodeMk3]

You're right, Elfie. More likely, one of those Rocket-torps hung up in the tube, or had some other kind of malfunction during the test-launch. THAT would wreck the bow torp room, and sink the Oscar-II.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Mr. Ripley, according to the film, the torpedoes weren't old training torps.

They are a new, sophisticated High-speed underwater ASW rocket.

Apparantly, up for sale to the Chinese, as well.

I could see why Intel services would be interested in seeing such a weapon test-fired. It will change submarine warfare quite a bit. As to the suspected collision, and an American sub torpedoeing a Russian craft in response, seem pure Hypothesizing on the part of the film's makers. That would have been an act of war, That I'm sure the Kremlin would have made lot's of noise over.

First of all that film someone found on a crap site is hardly the final stand point of truth in the universe. It has more flaws to its logic than swiss cheese has holes.

Secondly subs can carry several different kinds of munition on them. The russians have a large quantity of outdated training hardware at stock which they must either destroy or use in training. Being as they are they chose to risk it.

Not so many years ago they destroyed another nuclear sub when they were loading a torpedo on it. The faulty crane slipped the torpedo on the subs deck which resulted in the explosion of the fuel. I think that sub still sits at the port in Novaja Zemlja having the front portion of the hull scorched up resulting in structural failure.

So, use a f'ed up crane with $400 hardware broken/missing (probably because someone stole it) and end up destroying a friggin nuclear sub at port.

That is russia for you. And you can't make these things up - nobody would even dream in their right mind of the stuff that happened/happens down there.

[straffo]

Me think they met the giant brother of this shrimp :
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c77_1181450463

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
If an American sub had fired a torpedo at the Kursk, every ship in that exercise would have heard the torpedo firing on their sonar. In those shallow waters the American sub probably wouldn't have escaped the wrath of the Russian surface ships.

Well not saying it happened, but like they like to imply. However you know sooner or later something like that can and likely will happen when two ships are so close to each other.

It's fairly common knowledge that we  do play cat and mouse with the Russian subs and now other subs from other nations. So it's very likely that they could have had a collision. As for the torpedoing I wouldn't think so, and we will likely never know the real truth.

When our spy plane collied with the Chinese fighter plane, did we go to war with China? When you are pushing the edge on this kinda stuff "things" like this tend to happen and no country is going to go to war over something so minor in the overal scope of things. Unless of course they already intended to go to war.

Look into the USS Liberty.. It was attacked and almost sunk by Israel during the Six Day war. It was pretty much brushed under the table.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

[Vad]

Just to add few more doubts :

As you may know Russian finance institutions collapsed in 1998, so called 'default ' happened.

This link to the Central Bank of Russia, External Debt of the Russian Federation in 1999-2003
http://www.cbr.ru/eng/statistics/credit_statistics/print.asp?file=debt_04_e.htm

As you can see, our external debt dropped in 2000 from 177.7 bln in the end of 1999 to 146.3 bln in 2001.
30.6 bln of our debt to London Club were restructuring to 20.5 Eurobonds loosing more than 10 bln.

Common belief that Russia could do that because of high price on oil, but... This is the price of oil:
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp

Year Nominal Inflation Adjusted 2006
1996 18.46 22.40
1997 17.23 20.39
1998 10.87 12.66
1999 15.56 17.78
2000 26.72 29.54
2001 21.84 23.39
2002 22.51 23.78
2003 27.54 28.42
2004 38.93 54.93
2005 46.47 47.97
2006 58.30 58.30
 
There was jump in oil price in 2000 but not so huge.  And remember, Russia just experienced default we had a lot of domestic problems. Miraculously exactly in 2000 Russian economics started to grow, it means that there were some investments.

Russia paid external debt, invested... Where did we get all that money?

[Elfie]

It's fairly common knowledge that we do play cat and mouse with the Russian subs and now other subs from other nations. So it's very likely that they could have had a collision. As for the torpedoing I wouldn't think so, and we will likely never know the real truth.

As far as the first part, very true.


Second part, do you think the Russians would have kept quiet if we had torpedo'd  one of their subs while they were trying to impress the Chinese with their new torpedo? Highly unlikely. Very likely that if an American sub had fired a torpedo that the rest of the Russian fleet would have immediately attacked the American sub and sunk it. In those shallow waters it would have been extremely difficult to evade both surface and air attacks.

What about that new Russian torpedo? You guys that know physics how do you suppose it works?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Elfie

What about that new Russian torpedo? You guys that know physics how do you suppose it works?

It's a supercavitating underwater missile. It travels in a curtain of steam extremely fast. It doesn't have homing capability afaik apparently due to the method of travel but it's extremely fast.

[Vad]

Originally posted by Elfie
As far as the first part, very true.


Second part, do you think the Russians would have kept quiet if we had torpedo'd  one of their subs while they were trying to impress the Chinese with their new torpedo? Highly unlikely. Very likely that if an American sub had fired a torpedo that the rest of the Russian fleet would have immediately attacked the American sub and sunk it. In those shallow waters it would have been extremely difficult to evade both surface and air attacks.

 

And what would be the goal? To start WW3?
Everybody understood that even if it would happen it was incident and stupidity of  one American captain. If French are right, Putin did the best thing he could in that situation.
It would explain what did Bush see in his eyes in 2001

What about that new Russian torpedo? You guys that know physics how do you suppose it works?

Underwater missile, boils the water and fly in steam capsule.
I don't know details of guidance control.

[ghi]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
First of all that film someone found on a crap site
 

  Maybe this site is full of  dodo and fatasy, but i found this also interesting LASER intercept missile, shells
 and i think is real cuz i read about it in papers ,i think  Israel was testing for katiusa rokets

[Viking]

Two Il-38 ASW aircraft allegedly tracked a contact near Kursk into Norwegian waters and down the coast of Norway for several days before losing contact.

On the night of 18th of August 2000, 6 days after Kursk sank, the USS Memphis (SSN-691) arrived at the Haakonsvern naval base in Bergen, Norway. She had visible damage to her bow and sail, and 12 American women had quietly arrived in Bergen. The one thing they had in common is that they were married to US sailors serving on the Memphis.



-USS Memphis docked behind KNM Bergen, an Oslo-class FF. Picture taken by Russian satellite.


On direct questioning by the Russians the Norwegian embassy in Moscow confirmed the USS Memphis had docked at Haakonsvern for repairs. Allegedly part of a fence used on LA-class SSN's sail was found near Kursk.

In the days that followed both President Clinton and the Chief Director of the CIA travelled to Moscow. Later the Norwegian government would retract their previous statement and deny that the Memphis had docked at Haakonsvern.


As far as conspiracy theories go this one is one of the more believable. Numerous collisions at sea between US and Russian subs have occurred during the Cold War, but information about the accidents was kept quiet to avoid increasing tensions.

Another theory that gained some popularity in Russia is that the Peter the Great accidentally sank the Kursk with ASW weapons during a live fire demonstration.

[Swager]

What a crock!

The Kursk was sunk due to a malfunction in their new experimental rocket torpedo.

Pretty simple

to the brave souls that were lost.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Swager
What a crock!

The Kursk was sunk due to a malfunction in their new experimental rocket torpedo.

Pretty simple

to the brave souls that were lost.

That’s just as much of a ”crock” as the collision theory. The official Russian report says it was an older Type 65-76 torpedo that had been damaged during loading, and leaked hydrogen-peroxide fuel. The hydrogen-peroxide started a fire the Kursk’s crew couldn’t handle and after a while the fire cooked off other munitions resulting in a catastrophic explosion.

[Elfie]

And what would be the goal? To start WW3?
Everybody understood that even if it would happen it was incident and stupidity of one American captain. If French are right, Putin did the best thing he could in that situation.

I would expect any country to sink the offender in the situation I described. The goal would be to stop an aggressor from making another attack. If they attacked once, they could and probably would do so again.

Not that I believe the USS Memphis launched a torpedo, I'm just responding to what was said in the video.

[Vad]

Originally posted by Elfie
I would expect any country to sink the offender in the situation I described. The goal would be to stop an aggressor from making another attack. If they attacked once, they could and probably would do so again.

Not that I believe the USS Memphis launched a torpedo, I'm just responding to what was said in the video.

May be you are right... I don't know.
Hope we will be never on the position to make such decisions.

[Wotan]

As some one who served on an America fast attack submarine (Swager did as well) as a sonar tech I can tell you it was routine for us to set off Soviet waters and then track Soviet submarines as they left for patrol. sometimes for months. That's here-nor-there...

The Kursk sank due to a malfunction in a torpedo that used a hydrogen peroxide based propellant. This type of propellant is highly volatile and a serious fire hazzard.

This is what probably caused the Kursk to sink - the propellant caught fire then detonated  the torpedo warhead. Once the Kursk flooded and went to the bottom there was no hope in saving any of the surviving crew.

Torpedo fuel leak sank Kursk

All other nonsensical 'conspiracy theory' nutbagness aside some of you seem to want to believe in the most ridiculous garbage.

Oswald killed Kennedy alone, the earth is round, the US actually landed men on the moon and Bush actually believe WMDs were in Iraq.

Wotan mit uns!!!