Author Topic: Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight  (Read 3934 times)

Offline TequilaChaser

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« on: July 31, 2007, 02:26:52 PM »
I got some free time to up the other night and fly a few sorties in the AvsA arena.....with the Pacific planeset setup......

maha came in and also  Oldman, SSmokin & I thnk TCFKas..

anyhow.Oldman was just getting into a 1 vs 1 with TCFKas and I saw another bogey coming in from the North..

it was a  some what fast Ki84......

the rest is in the linked film below:

AvsA July 29th2007 maha in a Ki84 vs TC in a F4U-1 10 +/- minute fight

this has to be one of the longest drawn out dogfights  in a 1 vs 1 situation I have ever been in....it was intense , exhilirating and overall pure enjoyment.this is what this game is all about, when one goes looking for a true dogfight...

hope it is as much  enjoyable to watch for everyone as it was for me to actually have the chance to participate in this fight with maha......

~SALUTE~ maha for  the fantastic fight..........this one was a keeper
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Dichotomy

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2007, 02:41:55 PM »
dang... got to wait to watch it at home :mad:
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Offline daddog

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 12:20:44 AM »
That was a great fight! One of the best I have ever seen. :)
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Offline soda72

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 08:30:52 AM »
Did it have a happy ending?

:D

Offline dedalos

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 08:43:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by daddog
That was a great fight! One of the best I have ever seen. :)


Because you were not there to mess it up :rofl
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline daddog

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 11:23:15 AM »
:lol  You still tweeked about last night? :cry

Relax dedalos. I bag you maybe one in ten times and you spaz out every time. Your a much better stick than I am, but last night you made a mistake (in our second encounter) and I capitalized on it.  It actually showed me how hot you were to get me. You need to relax. Breath in, breath out. :cool:

If you don't like the way I play then I am sorry. I am not going to change it for you or anyone else. :)

Tell you what. We can duel, you can shoot me down 5 out of 5 times and you will feel better I am sure. :aok


As I said an amazing film TC. Really enjoyed it.
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Offline dedalos

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 01:01:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by daddog

If you don't like the way I play then I am sorry. I am not going to change it for you or anyone else. :)



Don't! Actually I would not have said anything if it was not for your lame excuses.  Just say I pick and its all I can do, and I'm fine with it.  Its the lame excuses coming afterwards including the before me saing anything.  It was not about last night.  It is about every single time.  I don't care about killing you or you killing me.  I care about spoiling a fun fight that had been going on for minutes.  Last time you did that there were only 3 of us in the AvA.  You felt it necesary to auger going for a pick instead of waiting 30 seconds and having a fight.
Quote


Tell you what. We can duel, you can shoot me down 5 out of 5 times and you will feel better I am sure. :aok

Could not care less.  I dont think it is worth the 10 seconds it will take.

Quote

As I said an amazing film TC. Really enjoyed it.


So, to understand my point.  Answer honestly this question.  Had you been in the area when those two were fighting, would that 'amaizing' fight had take place?  Be honest.  I can tell you if it was me I would not jump in even if one of them asked for help.

This is why that place is empty.  If I want to be in the MA I can go there.  The reason I go to the AvA is because there supposed to be some respect of the fights.  When 6 guys are on, cherry picking really stands out.  When three guys are on, it is just pathetic.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline toonces3

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 01:40:50 PM »
Nice fight.

Two immediate questions-

First, where is the huge blast shield that makes vis out of the cockpit so impossible?

Second, is that flight model right?  It seemed like you were pulling some impossible moves, eg. pulling vertical at about 100 mph, and in fact, I saw your airspeed hit 37 at one point.  It was in the 50-75 range alot.  Even with full flaps, with the plane inverted and at 40 mph I would expect you to be stalling right out of the sky.  The flaps shouldn't be giving you lift inverted, right?

That's a fight I could never have had, because I would never get my plane that slow.  Or, rather, I would never be able to maintain control, let alone maneuver, that slow...especially in an F4U.
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Offline dedalos

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 02:23:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
Nice fight.

Two immediate questions-

First, where is the huge blast shield that makes vis out of the cockpit so impossible?

Second, is that flight model right?  It seemed like you were pulling some impossible moves, eg. pulling vertical at about 100 mph, and in fact, I saw your airspeed hit 37 at one point.  It was in the 50-75 range alot.  Even with full flaps, with the plane inverted and at 40 mph I would expect you to be stalling right out of the sky.  The flaps shouldn't be giving you lift inverted, right?

That's a fight I could never have had, because I would never get my plane that slow.  Or, rather, I would never be able to maintain control, let alone maneuver, that slow...especially in an F4U.


F4Us have been changed Toons.  They used to be flying bathtabs.  Then one of the patches changed them and they are now better TNBs than a spitfire.  I did not watch the movie yet but I have seen them do impossible things with their gear down.  It seems that when at full flaps or gear down the antigravity engine engages.

Correction:  I have seen them and I have done impossible things in them
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline toonces3

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 02:34:40 PM »
Well, I can't hear the stall horn on the tape, and I don't see the shaking on the video, so I can't judget the 'level' of stall throughout the fight.  I'd guess that the stall horn was basically on for about half that fight.

You should watch the tape.  I have no idea what the flight model of a real F4U is.  But, just watching the speed at which TC pulls some of those moves seems impossible.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 03:15:24 PM »
Ded,
I am one who is known to not drop my F4U gear, maybe once in a blue moon I might do it......

toonces3,

I do not understand the following question:
Quote
First, where is the huge blast shield that makes vis out of the cockpit so impossible?


are you refering to the site glass / for the gunsite?

*NOTE* I do not recommend flying like this, and find that one should fly their desired plane type in its best flight performance envelope ( instantaneous turn(ie...corner velocity) to its best sustained turn rate.....flying way to fast or way to slow is not adviseable......it might be fun(IT IS FUN ) but it is not the proper way to do it.....

as for the flying at very slow speeds,  the  F4U is as capable of flying this slow when in a rolling scissors or going pure vertical ( think prop hang ), as are alot of the other planes in Aces High...... The P38, the C202, the P51 B & D, the P47D11/25, the bf109G2/F4,  the Ki84/Ki61........

Also, toonces, in the Aircraft & vehicles forum, there is a thread that Raptor started,  regarding P38 vs F4U flaps and stuff ( not sure of name of thread but Raptor posted it )
Raptor was in a fight with AKDogg, dogg in the F4U Raptor in a 38, and he asked a question about control at slow speed.....I posted as well as AKDogg posted, about using the Torque of the F4U's engine to help assist when rolling the plane.....this really does help the F4U get around its axis, even reducing throttle and then gunning throttle to produce an immediate thrust/torque roll to help assit one's maneuvering when in a slow dogfight......

as you questioned above just now, ( I did a preview and saw your  next post ), the stall horn was coming in/on at certian times at about a medium low volume to medium volume tone....and  if there is any screen shake/buffeting it should be minimal to nil....I try to not get into the buffeting if I can help it at all.  I did not look for this when I reviewed the film , but will go back and look for it now, since you mentioned it/asked about it

I would really like to know if maha had his film going during this fight, and if so would like to see it from his cockpit view ( the film viewer does not show the oppoents instruments/gauge readings ) all we see from my film is his speeds in the right hand column and externally we can view his flap settings/aileron input / rudder input..but no throttle control, etc......

actually, I had  2 or 3 fights with maha before this particular fight and by the time this fight was about 2 or 3 minutes into it, I was really forcing/pushing to hard to  get the angles..I over correct, snaproll it, stall it out and regain control a few numerous times, because I was pushing to hard......

the Ki84 thread in the help & Training section has a film/post by Widewing..and in his post he mentions how easy it is to get the ki84 to do "tail slides"... well, people might wonder why would you want to do a tail slide, or any acrobatic type maneuver in a game that deals more with dogfighting/ACM/BFM etc... well.you should learn your plane thoroughly, learn how far you can push the envelope, ride the edge, and still keep control, and how to recover QUICKLY if you step over that edge......
you posted:
Quote
That's a fight I could never have had, because I would never get my plane that slow. Or, rather, I would never be able to maintain control, let alone maneuver, that slow...especially in an F4U


my answer to that is, never say never, keep at it,  and you will get there, just don't give up and settle for anything less then your absolute best ;)


my take on the F4U  variants is that regardless if people think they are wonder planes since HTC changed some settings or if they were bathtubs before HTC made some changes. I find the plane to fly just the same as it did when it was introduced to the game back in what was it 2000?

I made a lot of mistakes in this film..mistakes I should not have made, simply because I did not keep my mind clear and pushed for a guns solution causing me to lose ground, or give up angles..angles that I had gained back from being behind on to begin with......

I loved the fight,  I loved the fact we went nose to nose a good bit of times  and we had enough respect not to fire on each other......

The F4U was stalling at the 37 mph mark, it stalled and I recovered.....and at times I snaprolled it  and over controlled my rolls alot....

but I am not going to take away from an absolutely fun fight in which maha outflew me and won..........

and I would pay double the subscription cost if I knew I could get a fight like this out of every 20 sorties......


in any case, thanx daddog & toonces3  glad someone enjoyed the fight....
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 03:34:54 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline dedalos

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 03:33:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Ded,
I am one who is known to not drop my F4U gear, maybe once in a blue moon I might do it......


Did not say you did.  All I am saing is that F4Us have been changed to fly like spitfires and that they do do some impossible things.  Thats is why I fly them vs 0s and Spit16s.

In any case.  Since the new look, or a patch right before the new looks, F4Us are a completly different plane.  Not saing is wrong or right.  Just saing they are not the old F4Us
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2007, 03:38:43 PM »
ah , no problem, ded......

I just asumed, whic, in itself gets people in to trouble sometimes :)

as for the F4U's.....I seriously do not see any difference in the flight model before or after......

I  only noticed some  small difference in the speeds at which I trimmed out at in the old version were a bit slower, than the speeds I trim out at in the latest 2 version updates / patches with the reskinned  F4U .......

the rest still seems the same....
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline daddog

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 06:45:23 PM »
Quote
So, to understand my point. Answer honestly this question. Had you been in the area when those two were fighting, would that 'amaizing' fight had take place? Be honest. I can tell you if it was me I would not jump in even if one of them asked for help.
If one of them asked for help yes I would have jumped in.

Quote
Just say I pick and its all I can do, and I'm fine with it.
I pick and it is all I can do. Now that I know your fine with it I never want to hear your whines again. :cool:

Phew, I am glad that is over. Yeee hawwww! :D
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Offline toonces3

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Talk about Having Your Hands full, in a dogfight
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 08:01:43 PM »
Tequila Chaser,
I was trying to be funny referring to the rear and up view in most of the F4U's I've tried.  There's an armor? shield that makes any 6 view horrid.  I've tried zooming out and to a side with moderate success, but your F4U seems to be missing it entirely.  
What model was it?  I haven't flown that -4 or C model...
"And I got my  :rocklying problem fix but my voice is going to inplode your head" -Kennyhayes

"My thread is forum gold, it should be melted down, turned into minature f/a-18 fighter jets and handed out to everyone who participated." -Thrila