In defence of younger players

[palef]

I tried FSO once. It was huge fun - except for kenny40 who would not STFU and argued with TracerX about everything. TracerX showed oustanding patience in the face of severe provocation.

I don't care how old anyone is. If you can't make even a tiny effort to fit in, to behave in a fashion relevant to the situation you find yourself in, then stay the hell away.

[Relorian]

If these kids cant take a little flack from us here on AH2, what are they like in the real world? Do they burn down your house for flipping them off or do they get all emo about it? (Its a bad joke)

Its not my job at all to raise anyones kids. If i wanted that job, id go out and get a test tube kit and grow myself a lil hordeling of my own. However, i DONT wish to raise kids nor should I be expected to raise someone ELSES kids, I didnt spawn them nor do i owe it to them. Im not a teacher, im not a parent, im not their friend nor am I going to tolerate the GIMME GIMME GIMME attitude that a vast majority show. If i wanted a gunner, ID ask for one, not have one repeatedly attempt to join me. If i want to fly your mission, I'll join it , If i dont please dont spam with "Join the Mission NOW!" 50 times a minute.
If i wanted to protect someones bombers I'd form up with them, I however wont be ordered into it by someone because they cant fly and shoot at the same time. If i wanted someone to tell me how to check their six for them or cover them, Id already be doing it. If i wanted someone to tell me that my shooting skills are "Teh suck" or that "If you ram them on a HO you suck".... well... actually, in that case id listen to the lil brats.

These kids with the gimme gimmes need to go out, RTFM and learn from it, Practice in offline mode like i did to learn how to fly buffs or how to roll a bf-109 into a NON suicidal dive. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind helping someone who's truly going to listen or needs help and asks. Im all for that, but I WILL NOT help if someone starts making demands like a drill sergeant or telling me i SUCK for NOT covering their six when im busy covering my own.

I may be a new comer to AH 2 but Im hardly new to online flight sims (Air Warrior 2 for years on AOL and off it) or online gaming (sense the 9600 baud days of BBS games). If even I can read a manual and understand things take time to learn, why shouldn't they be expected to show at least the same level of patients? If i can show some common respect, they can too. If not... they get squelched. Their choice, Not mine, im not forcing them to be rude or demanding.

[Helm]

Tigeress I am sorry to not have included young lady’s in my post.  They certainly deserve our guidance as well.

    Baine thanks for your post ….I agree that new players in general are treated  very poorly, worse then ever in my option

    As for the rest of the posts that go….”Hey it’s not my responsibility” ….”It’s not my job” ….”It’s not my problem” ….obviously you folks have not heard of an organization called “Big Brothers and Big Sisters”?
They seem to think it IS their job…and it IS their responsibility.

    Ask yourself this:    “If you look out your window and you see the boy across the street playing catch by himself cause he has nobody to toss it with.” ….do you?…”Walk across the street and toss a few’ ….or do you? ….”Quickly draw the drapes and hope that nobody saw you notice it?”

    I remember quite fondly some of my fathers friends and neighbors taking an interest in my life and showing me the path of the Warrior.  What a profound difference this made in my life.  Just because we are in an online world instead of a street in your town/city does not mean things have changed.

I remember Mr. Reed taking me for a ride in his Piper cub….he even let me hold the stick

Mr. Triber showing me how to fix everything under the sun

Mr. Daniels talking to me about science.

Mr. Robertson shooting the breeze with me about Baseball/Football/Life

    I could go on and on….but the point is that in addition to what my father taught me, other men helped by example and by their friendship and concern.  They could have easily done what most of you suggest and they could have ignored me.  They didn’t make excuses, they helped me become a man.

    There is no reason that we can't help young players enjoy our game and to show them the path.  It’s good for them, It’s good for us,  and in the end you might just be proud of what you accomplished!

   I’m saddened that many do share my Viking/Native American Values…the path of the young Warrior is a concern for all.  So the next time you see the evening news and some young person goes wrong, just keep telling yourself….. “Hey it wasn’t my job!” …..”It wasn’t my responsibility” …..”It was not my fault”

   May you excuses comfort you in today’s faceless, nameless waste land of indifference!

[Shuffler]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
I think you misunderstand the term squeeker. To me a squeeker is a person who wants it all NOW! One who will not take the time to learn the game, read the help info and continually demands that everyone supply him/her with everything they need and want NOW!

 You example was of a young man that was respectful, and listened because he wanted to learn more. On top of that he practiced, and worked along side those that knew more and again learned from them.

If you spend your time gettiing questions like "how do I fly?", or "how do I shift gears in my tank", and when somesays go "here" and read the help file, and you get the answer, "Just tell me!", you met a squeeker. If on the other hand, they say, ok, I'll be back soon, and they log off to go read it, then you have a young person who wishes to learn the game. That person I'll help.

[Yarbles]

When I fly with my squad we got 2 kinds of squeeker:

Type 1) You hear occasionally on the vox with something relevant to say Ok their fine.

Type 2) Soon as he is on his voice is half of all vox Traffic. This one has no one to talk to I guess but if we humour him we arn't enjoying ourselves and he is getting a misleading impression of how tolerant adults are.

We can nurture kids who are mostly there already but the neglected ignored ones are beyond us, there needs are too great.

I guess whoever started this had some charm and social skills which meant adults enjoyed helping him, allot of the kids who join during the long vacation simply do not have these attributes. What they lack is quality one to one input otherwise known as a parent and we are no substitute.  

Just my experience  

[Vudak]

Helm,

It's nice that you live by those rules and I'm sure you do help quite a few youths in your community but I do have to wonder how many low income houses/crack houses, homes of youths at risk, etc., you've actually been in.

Now, I'm not saying you haven't.  But if you have, you seem to have missed the general absence of gaming computers, joystick setups, and parents with $15 to spare for a silly game each month.

My point is, the kids that play this game aren't exactly underpriveleged or typical "at risk" children.  On the contrary, they are, (it is very fair to say, "for the greatly most part"), spoiled little brats that have had all the equipment necessary to play this game provided for them by their parents, who also cough up the $15 a month.

It sometime shows.

So personally, I'd say while your heart is good, your time might be better spent starting a youth softball league for kids that will actually appreciate it, rather than trying to get people to be "big brother" to the spoiled little kids who inhabit this game.

(And no offense to any of you lil' squeeks that actually do pay your own way, or aren't spoiled, or who generally just aren't annoying - I know there's a good number of you out there too, but then again this thread was never about you in the first place )

[SIK1]

Originally posted by Helm
Tigeress I am sorry to not have included young lady’s in my post.  They certainly deserve our guidance as well.

    Baine thanks for your post ….I agree that new players in general are treated  very poorly, worse then ever in my option


When I started out in AH I caught a lot of flak, and I know a lot of others did as well, not because we were squeakers, but because we were moving over from AW, so don't tell me new players are treated worse than ever.



 As for the rest of the posts that go….”Hey it’s not my responsibility” ….”It’s not my job” ….”It’s not my problem” ….obviously you folks have not heard of an organization called “Big Brothers and Big Sisters”?
They seem to think it IS their job…and it IS their responsibility.


This is not "Big Brothers" I believe you volunteer for that, and by all means go ahead and do so.


 Ask yourself this:    “If you look out your window and you see the boy across the street playing catch by himself cause he has nobody to toss it with.” ….do you?…”Walk across the street and toss a few’ ….or do you? ….”Quickly draw the drapes and hope that nobody saw you notice it?”



Neither, the pastie little punk is playing baseball on his PS3, with his pastie little punk friends



   I remember quite fondly some of my fathers friends and neighbors taking an interest in my life and showing me the path of the Warrior.  What a profound difference this made in my life.  Just because we are in an online world instead of a street in your town/city does not mean things have changed.

I remember Mr. Reed taking me for a ride in his Piper cub….he even let me hold the stick

Mr. Triber showing me how to fix everything under the sun

Mr. Daniels talking to me about science.

Mr. Robertson shooting the breeze with me about Baseball/Football/Life

    I could go on and on….but the point is that in addition to what my father taught me, other men helped by example and by their friendship and concern.  They could have easily done what most of you suggest and they could have ignored me.  They didn’t make excuses, they helped me become a man.


I remember people helping me out when I was younger too, but I had to put forth some effort, like show respect, follow directions, and show some interest in at least learning the fundementals



  There is no reason that we can't help young players enjoy our game and to show them the path.  It’s good for them, It’s good for us,  and in the end you might just be proud of what you accomplished!

As many have stated in this thread they don't mind helping the younger players, it's the obnoxious little brats that demand our attention that get the razzing, and distain rained down upon them.  


 I’m saddened that many do share my Viking/Native American Values…the path of the young Warrior is a concern for all.  So the next time you see the evening news and some young person goes wrong, just keep telling yourself….. “Hey it wasn’t my job!” …..”It wasn’t my responsibility” …..”It was not my fault”

   May you excuses comfort you in today’s faceless, nameless waste land of indifference!


I personaly don't feel that the internet is the place to teach anyone social values be it young or old. It is part of the reason that we live in a faceless, nameless wasteland of indifferance.

[SIK1]

Originally posted by Vudak
Helm,

It's nice that you live by those rules and I'm sure you do help quite a few youths in your community but I do have to wonder how many low income houses/crack houses, homes of youths at risk, etc., you've actually been in.

Now, I'm not saying you haven't.  But if you have, you seem to have missed the general absence of gaming computers, joystick setups, and parents with $15 to spare for a silly game each month.

My point is, the kids that play this game aren't exactly underpriveleged or typical "at risk" children.  On the contrary, they are, (it is very fair to say, "for the greatly most part"), spoiled little brats that have had all the equipment necessary to play this game provided for them by their parents, who also cough up the $15 a month.

It sometime shows.

So personally, I'd say while your heart is good, your time might be better spent starting a youth softball league for kids that will actually appreciate it, rather than trying to get people to be "big brother" to the spoiled little kids who inhabit this game.

(And no offense to any of you lil' squeeks that actually do pay your own way, or aren't spoiled, or who generally just aren't annoying - I know there's a good number of you out there too, but then again this thread was never about you in the first place )

Very well said Vudak:aok

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Helm
   As for the rest of the posts that go….”Hey it’s not my responsibility” ….”It’s not my job” ….”It’s not my problem” ….obviously you folks have not heard of an organization called “Big Brothers and Big Sisters”?
They seem to think it IS their job…and it IS their responsibility.
 

How can you say "obviously we have not heard of Big Brothers or Big Sisters?"

How do you know what kind of charity we may or may not be involved in with our communities? How can you judge what any of us have given to help the youth in our communities. You have no idea. You're making assumptions.

You're also dictating how people should spend their leisure time.

Who appointed you the leisure nazi?

You really want to help youth?

Get off your butt, push away from the computer go outside and actually help them.

Coach a peewee football, little leauge baseball, or soccer. Arrange a camping trip, paintball game, or fishing trip for boys and girls who could use it and appreciate it. If they have no father, teach them how to help their mother, by showing them how to feed the dog, mow the lawn, or put a coat of paint on their house.

That's going to do far more good than ego stroking them on the internet.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by croduh
This game is not just a game for a long time now.

Just felt i had to say that.

get a life.  it's a game.  if it's more then a game to you, please get some help.  Do yourself a favor and turn off the computer.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Helm
   As for the rest of the posts that go….”Hey it’s not my responsibility” ….”It’s not my job” ….”It’s not my problem” ….obviously you folks have not heard of an organization called “Big Brothers and Big Sisters”?
They seem to think it IS their job…and it IS their responsibility.

I'm firmly in the camp that we are our brother's keeper.  

But saying we are not is at least a very old rebuttal.

[DamnedRen]

Reason for those Organizations is a lack of parental guidence. If the parents stepped up and did their job there would be no need for it. Bad example because for the past 50 years there have been one parent kids that have been brought up to become normal, decent, hard working folks. Welfare Queens comes to mind but this isn't the forum for it.

Having rasied three kids I suggest if you feel so strongly about it that you spend all your money paying for it and let the rest of us put ours along more productive lines. Just don't ask me to pay for other parents lack of concern.

Ren

[thndregg]

Here's a judgement call of mine. I have three boys. The oldest is eight years. He has shown interest in playing Aces High (his plane of choice is the P51-D). He's fairly competent at his age with the basics of flying these sim-aircraft.

But, where I draw the line is the fact he has displayed a poor sportsmanship attitude in other games, and so long as he has that, I will not let him play online. He will need to grow up a bit, first. When he shows that he can handle losing (a lot), then perhaps I'll let him play.

[Sweet2th]

Originally posted by Helm
I am really tired of the endless bashing of the younger players that join our community.  I find this bashing 10 times more childish then any antics that a younger flyer does.  I find the term “squeaker” offensive and irresponsible.  
    In the summer of 1998 in Air Warrior a Father and a Son joined our squad, the boy was 13 at the time.  The father’s interest waned and he soon stopped flying.  Yet his son continued on with us until the Winter of 2006.  
    The young man become a great flyer and got better and better as time went on.  His attitude was very positive and he was always ready to join in what ever the squad was up to.  
    At the age of 16 this young man took flying lessons and obtained his private pilot’s license.  He then began working on his instrument flying  ratting which he accomplished.  He is now in college and working towards a masters degree.
     I feel strongly that the example set by myself and the members of our squad helped to shape this young man’s future.  We always treated him as an equal and provided guidance and leadership to him.  I think he enjoyed having adults he could hang out with and talk to on a 1 to 1 basis.  
    The fact is that parents can’t do it all for a child.  It is also our duty and responsibility as Men to show youngsters the path to manhood.  In today’s society many young men are raised alone by their Mothers and have very little contact with their Fathers. (wisdom of judges?)  This is a void that we in this community can fill.  Young Warriors need to be shown the path, not berated for their mistakes.  Set an example, make a difference in a young man’s life.  

Ask yourself: ….”What have I done to help a young man mature and follow the way of the Warrior” ?

     To those of you who help shape the leaders of tomorrow, I salute you all!  Remember this:  …”Today’s Rookie, is Tomorrow’s Superstar”



Sincerely

Helm

WORD

[scottydawg]

This post may make me seem old, if so, so be it (I'm 39).

The internet in general and this game specifically has created an unusual situation, where children and adults mingle in (what would seem to be) an egalitarian social manner (on a level playing field so to speak), with little regard for age and maturity.  I am hard pressed to think of another situation that is similar.

This can create some unique issues regarding respect and communication that you most likely wouldn't find in real-world scenarios, such as a ten-year old cursing out a 40 year old on channel 200 (or vice versa).  Something you would most likely NOT see at a backyard barbecue or at the mall.

The social aspect of the internet has opened many cans of worms, such as the chilling scenarios played out on "To Catch a Predator" as well as less sinister ones seen here involving potty-mouthed, hyperactive and impatient children and the annoyed adults who have to deal with them.  

The biggest problem that I can see is that unlike real-life, there are no perceived consequences for bad behavior (for either group) on the internet, leading to some activity that would be utterly inappropriate in real-life interactions.  The long-standing hierarchy that has existed between children and adults is becoming very blurry on the internet, and in my opinion, that's not a good thing.  Personally I am uncomfortable interacting in this manner with children and avoid it as much as possible.

My two cents.

d0gma