Hillary care makes a comeback.........

[FBBone]

So....what happens when someone decides not to participate?  "Individual mandate" means you really don't have the right to option out.  Participate or the feds will come looking for you, Maybe if your lucky, it wont turn out like Ruby Ridge or Waco.  Perhaps you will just be jailed?  So much for these people being "pro-choice".  But hey, at least they'll finally be able to get the Feds to finance the practice of baby slaught..........er.......I mean, the life saving practice of abortion.

Also, where'd the price tag come from.  I'd like to see the formula they used to come up with $110 billion.  As yet, I haven't been able to find it.  How will the federal govt. keep cost overruns in check?  By dictating what Dr.s make?  By limiting what drug manufactures charge for their products?  (Boroda, any of this sound familiar?)  What happens if the number of students in med school drops because their is no longer good money involved, no longer worth the trouble?  Will Hillary just be selecting young men and women to - fill these positions, or else?  

Maybe it will be cheaper and better, though.  It seems that if it happens that we will have to focus on prevention and health, rather than treatment and cure.  What does this mean though?  "HEY, FATTY! Yeah, you!  Get out here and line up for your govt mandated morning exercise routine!"  Nope, likely they'll just pay a "fat tax" and be done with it.  

No thanks.  Our health care system is anything but perfect, but given the option between universal health care and what we have now, I'll chose the the current system every time.  At least now I have choices in my coverage, and if I want more I can always find a way to increase my earning potential to pay for it.  Seems like a novel idea these days.  Going it alone, without wanting the govt holding my hand.  Getting ahead on my own, or pulling myself up by the boot straps if I fail.  Not wanting a "free handout".

[lazs2]

If you got rid of social security and welfare you could probly afford to take the money and use it to bankrupt the country instead.

No matter what it costs today... a government program costs twice as much next year and that is 10 times what they said it would cost and.... most people won't have access to it.

If you work for a living you won't be able to wait in line like the ones who don't... you will pay for the ones who get the care while getting no real care of your own.

hillary says the everyone will be able to choose a plan just like the ones offered congress... I would bet the plans offered congress run about $1,000 a month.

Who is going to pay for that again?

lazs

[Trell]

If health care keeps going the way it is I will be paying around 2000$ a month in another 10 years just for my self..        

its not broken?

[FBBone]

Originally posted by Trell
If health care keeps going the way it is I will be paying around 2000$ a month in another 10 years just for my self..        

its not broken?

I don't think anybody said it wasn't broken, but you wouldn't fix your broken Honda Civic by throwing a Rolls Royce at it........................

[indy007]

Originally posted by FBBone
It seems that if it happens that we will have to focus on prevention and health, rather than treatment and cure. What does this mean though? "HEY, FATTY!, Yeah, you, get out here and line up for your govt mandated morning exercise routine!" Nope, likely they'll just pay a "fat tax" and be done with it.

They'll just ban everything that tastes good.

edit: fat people be warned. if you get my twinkies banned, I will kill you.

[Druss]

originally posted by Dynamite

Thanks Bubba <> you too

Hey, out of curiosity, what is on your Avatar? I can't quite make it out- It looks pretty cool

That's is Druss the Legend. I am a rabid fan of David Gemmell. Too bad he died last year. Many of us will miss his work.

His first book Legend was first published in 1986 and has been in print every since. Good stuff!

[Trell]

Originally posted by FBBone
I don't think anybody said it wasn't broken, but you wouldn't fix your broken Honda Civic by throwing a Rolls Royce at it........................

I also would not just sit there and stare at the BROKEN car for the next 10 years either.

At the raite it is going that broken civic will cost more then the rolls in just a few years.

[FBBone]

Originally posted by Trell
I also would not just sit there and stare at the BROKEN car for the next 10 years either.

At the raite it is going that broken civic will cost more then the rolls in just a few years.

OK............I'll play devil's advocate here and agree with you.  What then do you propose we do to fix it?  Lets try for a solution that isn't a mandate for everyone, or another govt hand out.

[myelo]

Originally posted by Eagler
care to clarify your post which I took as u stating the losers paying tax dollars will pay for their care ??

Surely (may I call you Surely),

I wasn’t talking about taxes because how you pay for health care is a different issue than how much it costs. My point was this – everybody in this country gets health cares. But only some of us pay for it. If you can get more people paying for it, the cost to each payer is going to go down. Then more people could afford it.

[Gunthr]

i want my health care provided by people who are motivated by profit... people who have some incentive to give me good service.

i was thinking about this the last time i was waiting in line at the division of motor vehicles for a title transfer....  these are the same people who would be managing my "health care" under a universal health care system.  no thanks.

[Hap]

I'm all for socialized medicine.  

Drug companies, medical schools and the whole medical complex has not served the American people as well as they should have.

They've had their run.

Profits winout over the welfare and health of the citizen time in and time out.

Throw the bums out!

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Gunthr
i want my health care provided by people who are motivated by profit... people who have some incentive to give me good service.

i was thinking about this the last time i was waiting in line at the division of motor vehicles for a title transfer....  these are the same people who would be managing my "health care" under a universal health care system.  no thanks.

My step daughter works for one of those "for profit" health care insurance providers. She is very critical of the way the profiteers maintain their profit by delaying treatment for folks. I'm not sure I want to have my health care being provided by an entity who's main concern is the profit at the end of the year. That smacks too much of "it's their own money that they would be spending" to cover your medical need.

[Gunthr]

   quote:Originally posted by Gunthr
    i want my health care provided by people who are motivated by profit... people who have some incentive to give me good service.

    i was thinking about this the last time i was waiting in line at the division of motor vehicles for a title transfer.... these are the same people who would be managing my "health care" under a universal health care system. no thanks.



My step daughter works for one of those "for profit" health care insurance providers. She is very critical of the way the profiteers maintain their profit by delaying treatment for folks. I'm not sure I want to have my health care being provided by an entity who's main concern is the profit at the end of the year. That smacks too much of "it's their own money that they would be spending" to cover your medical need. - Mav

__________________


 i think your step-daughter should be looking for a new job, because that kind of provider won't stay in business long.

  they fail to provide their subscribers with value.  people will simply go elsewhere for insurance...  try that with universal health care.  you'd be stuck - the same way you are when you are waiting in line at the DMV.    we can't expect government to do a better job than the market.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Hap
I'm all for socialized medicine.  

Drug companies, medical schools and the whole medical complex has not served the American people as well as they should have.

They've had their run.

Profits winout over the welfare and health of the citizen time in and time out.

Throw the bums out!

and with the gov running the show this will change how?
the song will remain the same, just sung by a different singer - maybe China will be able to furnish cheaper drugs (they'll work sometimes) than the ones we have to buy today eh?

yes, imagine the DMV, real winners working there - that is your tax dollars at work...now imagine the entire health department run with that attitude and efficiency. no thanks.

[moot]

Originally posted by Rolex
It's a shame that an adult discussion about health care isn't possible in the O'Club without the political and ethnocentric terrorists bombing the discussion.

There are a variety of people from different countries who could explain their system, the cost, their experience in getting care and the good and bad points, in their first-hand view.

Some people may learn something. I'm curious about health care in Scandinavian countries, for example, to compare to my health care system. Who gets better value, and who gets less.

It truly is a shame. Ah well.

Healthcare here (france, indian ocean territory) is cheap, and accessible to pretty much everyone.  I can just show up at the doc (any doc), and either be seen (right away if an emergency) or take an appointment.  I had to pay 25 bucks instead of around 4000 total for my wisdom teeth operation and convalescence.  This was done by signing a paper (a relative knew the ropes) two days after receiving the bill.
The quality of treatment depends on the doctor (as anywhere else I suppose), and so far I've had good docs.  I don't know that this is dependent on the politics/healthcare system so much as the quality of medical studies in the country.  French academia is pretty thorough.  I have heard from a few residents here and elsewhere that the american quality of medical care (above mundaine treatment) is superior, so I'm missing data points..

The downsides that I've experienced first hand are long waits at the hospital, sluggish service by the non-treating employees (too many people to take care of = jaded public skills), and having to pay for services I'll never use:  a pretty big portion of my salary.  I can't even waive their substraction off the paycheck in exchange for disqualification from them.
It's also taken for granted, and while the territory is an extreme case of laziness (everyone and their grandma get on welfare and contribute nothing after the minimum requirements are satisfied), I'm pretty sure a lot of people who could get better on their own depend on doctors instead.