Author Topic: Dachau Waffen SS guard found in GA. (Read 4269 times)

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #75 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:17:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Really? I find it in bad taste those that glorify the actions of murders or sugar coating their atrocities.

ack-ack

Ahh but not all actions by German soldiers were any more murderous then we ourselves did in combat.
And atrocities are commited on both side during combat.

THAT is if you are referring to the geman soldier as a whole and not only singling out those that were directly responcable or had direct personal actions at the camps.

You speak of glorifying the actions of murderers and sugar coating their atocities.

What of our own General Sherman? Whom by almost anyones standard could (and probably should) be reguarded as a war criminal.

Or any of probably hundreds of peoples throughout history.

The only difference between any of them. and the Germans (other then the obvious numbers involved) is that WWII is the most recent

As far as those directly involved the the extermination attept. Im all with you.
But I cannot apply that same standard to the german soldiers in their entirety

Fishu · « **Reply #76 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:21:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Really? I find it in bad taste those that glorify the actions of murders or sugar coating their atrocities.

Who here has glorified anything?

I'm not the one blinded by 65 years old propaganda in which germans are portrayed as brutal barbarians incapable to act honorably.

Hell, germans burned down to ground everything in lapland while retreating. All for a revenge. I'm not bitter at the german soldiers who were there to do it, neither were mpst the veterans who were there. The soldiers were told to burn down everything and that's end of the discussion. Of course they could object and get shot - The lapland would have burned regardless.

There were germans who never had to worry of anything else but to fight a war like a soldier does and those germans who were forced to do unpleasant things. Then there were those who wanted to do things unpleasant to others - They should burn in hell.

Toad · « **Reply #77 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:23:39 PM »

Unlike some of my fellow Yank posters, I DO know what I would do. At whatever cost. You're the Captain of your Ship and the Captain of your Soul.

Equivocate all you like.

You can be a part of mass murder, however small, or you can walk away. It's all about choice.

As for respect for any Nazi, I'm seriously lacking. In fact, I'm totally out. I won't be getting any more in, I never stocked any.

And for the Putzes that try to compare Iraq and WW2, I suggest they look at purpose and result. Does anyone think that when the Nazis went into France and deposed the government that their intent was to hold free elections, get a new government on its feet and then get out as quickly as possible?

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #78 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:30:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ahh but not all actions by German soldiers were any more murderous then we ourselves did in combat.
And atrocities are commited on both side during combat.

THAT is if you are referring to the geman soldier as a whole and not only singling out those that were directly responcable or had direct personal actions at the camps.

You speak of glorifying the actions of murderers and sugar coating their atocities.

What of our own General Sherman? Whom by almost anyones standard could (and probably should) be reguarded as a war criminal.

Or any of probably hundreds of peoples throughout history.

The only difference between any of them. and the Germans (other then the obvious numbers involved) is that WWII is the most recent

As far as those directly involved the the extermination attept. Im all with you.
But I cannot apply that same standard to the german soldiers in their entirety

My comment is in reference to any of the SS units.

ack-ack

Fishu · « **Reply #79 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:33:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
My comment is in reference to any of the SS units.

Which of the majority were soldiers in the Waffen-SS with no part in war crimes. That's nearly a million soldiers, a huge part of the whole german armed forces in the WWII.

You're blinded by your emotions and false knowledge. Please, study the history a bit more and then come back.

Fishu · « **Reply #80 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:38:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
You can be a part of mass murder, however small, or you can walk away. It's all about choice.

I'd like to see you to go tell that to the german veterans

By that definition every german who lived in WWII were mass murderers. Great!

Soldiers at the frontline made it possible for Hitler to murder people as long as he did and same goes for the civilians who worked to keep the war machine running in factories and farms.

Neubob · « **Reply #81 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:41:58 PM »

I always find it odd that on this board, it's always the Europeans and Scandinavians that find the strength to be objective in matters like these, especially when it comes to former nazis and warcrimes, and the Arab Israeli conflict in general.

Americans generally react from the gut, with anger and resolve against the Nazis/Terrorists, while our friends from across the ocean paint the German Patriot, Zionist/Muslim problem in a whole different light.

Must be the textbooks.

Toad · « **Reply #82 on:** October 01, 2007, 08:59:48 PM »

Or the fact that they started two world wars that eventually engulfed us.

Toad · « **Reply #83 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:07:04 PM »

So you think this guy had no idea what was going on at Dachau? He could never figure out what that smell was coming from the crematories? He saw thousands arrive but none ever leave yet the camp could always hold more?

Up close and personal, he was there and was a part of it.

I'd have walked away. Would you?

Gryphons · « **Reply #84 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:21:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad

So you think this guy had no idea what was going on at Dachau? He could never figure out what that smell was coming from the crematories? He saw thousands arrive but none ever leave yet the camp could always hold more?

Up close and personal, he was there and was a part of it.

I'd have walked away. Would you?

And you would have received a nice bullet to the head and would have been buried in a shallow grave outside of the concentration camp.

Just sayin

Toad · « **Reply #85 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:26:14 PM »

And you think that is the worst thing that could happen to a person?

You think that prolonging your life is worth voluntary participation in the worst sort of atrocities?

You'd sell your soul for another day? Would you kill your mother in cold blood at the government's order for just one more day of life? Your neighbor? A stranger on the street? A thousand strangers on the street?

Is that what you're saying when you are just saying?

Golfer · « **Reply #86 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:27:06 PM »

Toad I have all the respect in the world for you but c'mon. You'd just up and walk away if:

a.) You were a 13 year old boy who joined the Hitler Youth because it was the patriotic thing to do and actually a goal?

b.) You were fed propaganda for 5 years explaining why the Jews are the cause of all your problems starting when you're thirteen years old. A 13 year old mind against the Nazi propaganda machine isn't even in the neighborhood of a fair fight. The undying loyalty to the Reich and Furhor built into their heads for all those years isn't a choice they made because they thought one day it is a good idea to kill Jews. It was fed to them by the real evil bastards who manipulated these kids into doing their dirty work for them (something that repeats itself throughout history...)

You'd walk out on the same guys you grew up with in the Hitler Youth and the SS? These guys were soldiers. Bound by duty and honor despite the fact they were forced to do some of the most horrendous things bestowed on man by another. You'd walk out on your squadron bros? You'd somehow be able to walk away despite the years of propaganda being fed to you, the pressure of standing with your bros and the fact that if you just up and walked away you'd probably catch a bullet in the back from someome smart enough to know that you're a liability?

Those kids were taken advantage of. I left the boyscouts when my local leader reminded me of David Koresh and religion overcame the cool stuff we did like camping, fishing and orienteering. Had I been in the Hitler Youth in the spring of 1939 I wouldn't have had the freedom to do that in pre war Nazi Germany. I sure as hell wouldn't have had the freedom to do that with a war on being branded a traitor and executed. The laws of self preservation dictate that between go along and get along or eating a bullet what you'd do. The real caveat about all of this is had I or any of us been a 13 year old boy in 1930's Germany with the opportunity to join the Hitler Youth and eventually the Waffen SS...we would have done it.

To say you wouldn't is standing a little high on your horse because you were not faced with the situation, you were not put into his shoes and in the end you didn't have to make the decisions he made.

In my mind he's a soldier. He didn't come up with the idea of death camp, he was ordered to train dogs to guard them. He appears to have carried out his orders. More than 60 years have passed and now he's an old man. If he did anything that weighed against his conscience for all this time then he's carried those images with him every day of his life since. If he's a religious man then regardless of who thinks what constitutes justice he's going to face his judgement sooner rather than later. He'll have a long time to burn in hell without all the hoopla of residents of a different time and a different world thumping their chests about what they'd do when it comes to riding the moral high road.

Toad · « **Reply #87 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:29:30 PM »

Long before I was 13 my parents and my religion had ingrained me with the wild and crazy idea that mass murder was something in which I shouldn't voluntarily participate.

How about yours?

bj229r · « **Reply #88 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:32:57 PM »

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We would all like to think that we would do this or that under extreme circumstances. But untill you are actually facing it. You don't really know.
And you would be surprised at how ones perspective can change.

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And you would have received a nice bullet to the head and would have been buried in a shallow grave outside of the concentration camp.

Just sayin

So you would shove women and children into a ditch and shoot them to save your measly life? I don't have to think for a second what my choice would have been

Gryphons · « **Reply #89 on:** October 01, 2007, 09:33:44 PM »

Well said Golfer.

No bj229er thats not what I'm saying (I do find it funny that you and Toad jump to those conclusions tho), what I'm saying is that it's very hard to speculate on what you would do when you have never been put into that situation (not to meantion the years of propiganda before hand).