Author Topic: SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO  (Read 2630 times)

storch

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SIG220's SIG 220 .45 Caliber Pisols!! -- PHOTO
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2007, 04:52:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Actually, 38 Super is hotter than 9MM. A few years ago, 38 Super became very popular again because 9MM couldn't make major power factor safely for competition shooting. But 38 Super could easily. After a while, some one came up with a stretched 9MM that made major. But it was essentially a crossbreed that didn't really fit the spirit of the rules, even though it got by.
I didn't know the difference between the two rounds so I looked it up and you are correct the 38 super is indeed a better performer on paper.

9x19mm  115gr fmj  1180fps/356ftlbs

.38 super 115gr fmj 1395/497

.40 S&W  155gr 1140/447

on paper it hits better than the .40 S&W

I won't run out and buy one though.

Offline moneyguy

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« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2007, 05:05:16 PM »
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Originally posted by Terror
So how does a discussion happen if you cannot state a rebuttal to a persons opinion/point?  Seems thats the whole point of a discussion board.  You know, point/counterpoint, etc etc...

T



so far all you've done is tell everyone how wrong they are and how right you are. a number of times.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2007, 05:43:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I didn't know the difference between the two rounds so I looked it up and you are correct the 38 super is indeed a better performer on paper.

9x19mm  115gr fmj  1180fps/356ftlbs

.38 super 115gr fmj 1395/497

.40 S&W  155gr 1140/447

on paper it hits better than the .40 S&W

I won't run out and buy one though.


No doubt, the 38 Super is NOT for everyone. It is a good intermediate round, I'd MUCH prefer it to 9MM or 40 Short and Weak.
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Offline Terror

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« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2007, 08:18:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by moneyguy
so far all you've done is tell everyone how wrong they are and how right you are. a number of times.


And they tell me how wrong I am and how right they are.  Seems like a good discussion to me.  How else is a discussion with differing sides supposed to work?  Point/Counter-point....right??

T.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2007, 08:40:33 PM »
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Originally posted by Terror
And they tell me how wrong I am and how right they are.  Seems like a good discussion to me.  How else is a discussion with differing sides supposed to work?  Point/Counter-point....right??

T.
No.    Your "point" is since the "Sig doesn't fit your needs, it's a steaming pile."   Farther from the truth.   Your other "point" is that "The Glock is the best pistol for fast and accurate."   Again, this is farther from the truth.  

You posted ripping on a Sig 220, which in the firearms community, is one of the finest pistols manufactured.    I personally haven't fired one, but I have seen em up close in action.    I have watched my buddy (and have also fired it many times) put 20,000 rounds through a Pre Ban Sig 226.  

Your initial post had so much bias it never was a "point".
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Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2007, 12:24:02 AM »
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Originally posted by Terror
In the incident from my previous  post above, the shooting took place in front of the court house in Tyler, Texas.  A town of around 80,000 people.  Not a place you would think of as a hot bed of crime and violence.  The bad guy was hit several times with .45acp and didn't have to "shake off the effects".  (.45acp is no slouch, it doesn't have the muzzle energy of 357mag, but it still hits freaking hard.)  He was finally brought down by a rifle shot to the head.  

I'm not advocating "spray and pray".  I'm advocating "fast AND accurate".

T


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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #96 on: November 10, 2007, 10:41:33 AM »
yep terror.. I don't think you want to take that one incident and make it seem typical... you need to read marshal on stopping power and gunfights.. real gunfights aren't like any contest I have ever seen.  being shot at is not like any contest I have ever seen.

read the case studies..  no matter what the training.. it was the man who did the job.. if he freaked.. he didn't do well.. if he was calm he did well.  

I will add.. any gun that you are good with is better than any gun you are not.

Oh.. holden.. they do make a grip frame for the block now that puts it at the 1911 angle.

The 38 super?  I guess if you get the right barrel that headspaces on the case mouth.. you got an accurate gun with power near .357 levels.

still tho.. in real life.. the old .357 is still king of the one shot stop..

long live the king.

lazs

Offline Terror

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« Reply #97 on: November 10, 2007, 01:11:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
read the case studies..  no matter what the training.. it was the man who did the job.. if he freaked.. he didn't do well.. if he was calm he did well.


Please link to the "studies".  What I have read is that the training and experience is what makes the difference.  With good training and alot of practice, survivability chances are increased by large margins.  Staying "calm" is worthless if you have no idea what to do in the situation.  You will fall back on your training when stress levels make full thought out decisions impossible.  And good training would definitely assist in the "staying calm" department.

No one incident is "typical".  Be prepared for as much as possible.  

Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
You posted ripping on a Sig 220, which in the firearms community, is one of the finest pistols manufactured. I personally haven't fired one, but I have seen em up close in action. I have watched my buddy (and have also fired it many times) put 20,000 rounds through a Pre Ban Sig 226.


"If you don't want to shoot fast and accurate, a Sig is fine" is exactly what I said.  Never said one couldn't put 20,000 rounds down range.  I have have spoken with ALOT of folks in the "firearms community" that agree.  I even stated why I think they make it hard to be "fast and accurate".  

Quote

"Sigs sit too high in your hand, causing alot of "flip", which pulls the gun up off target much more then other guns.
Second, the trigger pull is LONGGGGGG, and the reset is much LONGERRRRRR. Which makes shooting fast and accurate MUCH harder. And it also causes alot of failures to reset the trigger."


Lazs, I agree the 357mag is a great round.  I just don't practice enough with my revolver to feel competent enough to use it as a carry gun.  It's a fun gun to take to the range and take my time with, but I would not want to get caught in a situation with it.  Thought about using a Glock in 357SIG, but will probably stick with the lowly Glock26 with Winchester Ranger 9mm +P+ 127gr SXT.

T.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2007, 05:01:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terror
Please link to the "studies".  What I have read is that the training and experience is what makes the difference.  With good training and alot of practice, survivability chances are increased by large margins.  Staying "calm" is worthless if you have no idea what to do in the situation.  You will fall back on your training when stress levels make full thought out decisions impossible.  And good training would definitely assist in the "staying calm" department.

I have have spoken with ALOT of folks in the "firearms community" that agree.  


T.
Then your circle of "geniuses" forgot to mention that when the watermelon hits the fan, training only gets you so far.    Applying said training under fire is another story.     If you think otherwise, then you are all ego.

BTW, I can empty 3 full mags quickly with a Sig (probably faster than yourself and be center mass.    I guess all of your "training" isn't as good as your making out to be...  

Give me any gun Terror, I'll have no problems.   I carried a POS Beretta Tomcat and reverted back to a J frame S&W .38.   It was more accurate and I could reload with good dexterity.    I qualified 4 times a year for 3 years.   I still go to the range every other week.   Keep in mind I never picked up a gun until 1998.  


On another note Sig220, why you use the 165gr Cor Bon?   I use the 230 gr CorBon .45 +P myself.    I thought about going to the 200 gr. "Flying ashtray".
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:07:33 PM by Masherbrum »
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2007, 05:34:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Glocks are horrible guns.



That is all.


Negative

Offline Terror

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« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2007, 05:49:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Then your circle of "geniuses" forgot to mention that when the watermelon hits the fan, training only gets you so far.    Applying said training under fire is another story.     If you think otherwise, then you are all ego.

BTW, I can empty 3 full mags quickly with a Sig (probably faster than yourself and be center mass.    I guess all of your "training" isn't as good as your making out to be...  


I completely agree, you still have to apply the training.  But without the training (and continuous practice), remaining calm is just as worthless as completely loosing your mind when bad poop comes knocking...

Now on claim #2.  Lets get together and have some fun.  I'll bring my Glock collection.  I make it up to Grand Rapids, MI about twice a year.  Shall we visit a range together up north?  Or if you come out St Louis, MO way, let me know.  I'll be happy to host you at the gun club!

T.

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2007, 06:40:34 PM »
If I have nothing going on when you come up, sure.   As I've stated before Terror, folks like yourself that say "I'm a good shot", aren't.    Any professional shooter I have met, claims otherwise and are very humble.
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Offline Terror

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« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2007, 07:30:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
If I have nothing going on when you come up, sure.   As I've stated before Terror, folks like yourself that say "I'm a good shot", aren't.    Any professional shooter I have met, claims otherwise and are very humble.


I guess I don't remember claiming to be a "good shot".  I have put alot of rounds down range with many types of firearms, but I am by no means a "Master" level shooter.  I have a full time job and a family that keeps me from practicing on a daily basis to maintain that level of skill.

My primary point in this thread is, IMO, the SIG line of handguns are not the best choice for "fast and accurate" shooting.

T

Offline Terror

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« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2007, 07:44:08 PM »
Someone wanted a picture of me with a Glock.  Finally found an action photo of myself shooting a Glock26....  I think this was at a Glock Sport Shooting Foundation (GSSF) match in Indianapolis about 2 years ago.  Was one of my first matches using the G26....



Terror

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2007, 10:25:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Terror
My primary point in this thread is, IMO, the SIG line of handguns are not the best choice for "fast and accurate" shooting.

T


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