so what do you do?

[B@tfinkV]

saw on the news tonight another guy took a gun and shot a load of people then himself. think it was in europe somewhere, forgive me not finding links. was just thinking about it though, the guy had a website about his hatred of humanity and the evidence was all there long before he did the crime, it could have been stopped.

I also felt a deep disgust in seeing a likeminded person to myself, i have very far out ideas about the human race in general, that a person like myslf would choose this option to sutain his frustrations. disgusting.

[B@tfinkV]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7082795.stm

here is the story.

[Bronk]

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219302
Try here.

[lazs2]

best you can do is be prepared to shoot him dead before he kills you or someone else..   even tho it is very unlikely that you will run into someone like him...    More likely you will run into a thug who just wants to harm you and/or take your stuff..

You are more likely to be attacked or mugged than you are to be in a wreck where a seatbelt would save you..  but.. they make us wear seatbelts.

lazs

[B@tfinkV]

the first rule of any philosophy about the human race that i would entertain is that the thesis relates to the thinker before being applied to the rest of humanity. there is no excuse for having anarchic or anti-social views about the human race yet thinking you yourself are above your critical eye. to take it out on other people less enlightened than yourself transforms all your greatest revelations into murderous sickness.

i believe that to have the right to judge the human race on a grandscale one must first be at peace with one's self and with your fellow man. there is no great legacy of thought left when you willingly harm those unable to defend themself, you become much less the thinker and much more the fiend.

Is society to blame for this young man's actions? hard to say. we dont know what shaped his mind and we dont know exactly how his life developed from childhood. to be honest all i do know is that he let himself down (or was let down by society?) in the worst way, took a deep and thoughtfull mind and turned it to evil and insanity as a way to escape the reality he created around himself.

so why would a soul continue to create a reality that needed escaping from? one possibility is that we all crave a reason to live, some of us crave more than others and imaginations are the key to creating your life to be worthy of continuation. this person lost any reason to live, by his own fault or other's matters not. I think it is a growing increase in the evidence of humanity falling off the right road in evolution. more and more people are growing up and lacking any reason to live other than thier own deluded fantasy and in an age where huge populations are no longer restricted with inhibitions and the fear of punishments for thinking outside the box there is only going to be an increase in these sick individuals venting on our children and loved ones.

[lazs2]

sorry bat... not such a deep thinker as you.. I don't really know the ins and outs of why these people exist.   I can guess but.. it is just a guess.

I do know that they, or people like them, have always existed and probly always will.   I know that civilization and the industrial age has given us an equalizer.. and his prophet is col colt.

Like I said.. who knows.. I just know that it is prudent for someone in our civilization.. in the immediate area... and as quickly as possible... it is prudent for them to shoot the guy down until he is no longer a threat.

I carry because too many shirk their duty and don't have the courage to.  I do not want to trust that "someone" will take care of it.  

Only about 10% or the population feels as I do.. the other 90% would rather not bother and hope that someone else will help..

This is not a bad thing.. it is just the way it is.  I accept this in people and plan for it.

lazs

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by lazs2

You are more likely to be attacked or mugged than you are to be in a wreck where a seatbelt would save you..  but.. they make us wear seatbelts.

lazs

Were?

[B@tfinkV]

thats something i can respect lazs, the fact you will make yourself a 'combatant' rather than a helpless waste of space.

i bet you are the kind of guy that would risk his life to fight back an attacker rather than play it safe lose some credit cards and walk away shamed but unharmed. I hope that despite being unable to own a firearm i would still act in this way if challenged by a low life. death before being someone's b1tch. The time in my life when i have been mugged or threatened i have fought back and got hurt or won, but never lost my dignity. this being said i have been threatened with knives but never guns, two very different fights.

although you say youre not a deep thinker i would argue about that. my deepest thoughts concern one subject, the human mind and human race considered broadly. Your opinions of gun ownership and the right to carry are obviously amoung your deepest thoughts as you manage to find reason to further your opinions from a wide range of topics like this murder story and many others.

niether of our deeper thoughts on these subjects are more worthy than the other, so i would say almost everyone is a deep thinker in some aspect of thier life.

[crockett]

Originally posted by lazs2
You are more likely to be attacked or mugged than you are to be in a wreck where a seatbelt would save you..  but.. they make us wear seatbelts.

lazs

lol where the hell do you dig this crap up? Is this more NRA BS?

[Curval]

Apples + oranges = lazs

[Leslie]

I am no expert, but here's my viewpoint.  About the only things you can do to survive if a person running amok comes in and starts shooting is either run and hide or put the offense on him, or maybe some of each.  You have nothing to lose if there is no escape.  I hope no one here ever runs into a situation like that.  

Lazs makes some good points, and has more experience then most when it comes to rough customers.  I respect his experience and opinion very much.  It's easy to forget there is a lot of evil going on in the world, because most of the time we deal with nice people.  We are taken by surprise when evil things happen.  It is difficult to be on guard all the time as well, but it is necessary to do the best we can.

My thoughts are based on what I've heard over the years from people who I believe to be knowledgeable.  If someone is out to get you they will try.  There is a saying: To be forewarned is to be forearmed.  Realize if someone is  really after you, they will probably get you.  Always take a death threat seriously.

On a different level with different motivations, thugs and muggers are opportunists looking for easy marks.  They are as Lazs described, either after money or to harm you.  Things you can do to avoid thuggery is give the appearance you are moving about with purpose.  Don't go about looking like you are lost or aimlessly walking around.  Don't look down at the ground or appear depressed.  Give a healthy and robust appearance, like you are in shape and capable of handling yourself.  Avoid places where trouble might happen, such as rough bars or bad parts of town.  If you see an unsavory looking group headed toward you, cross the street and use that sidewalk.  Avoid public intoxication where you might be unawares of what's going on around you.  Keep an eye peeled in parking lots and at the gas station.  Lock your car doors and keep windows rolled up.  If bumped from behind, look to see who is in the car that bumped you before stopping and getting out to inspect damage.

Couple random thoughts:
Fighting a mugger who wants your wallet is not such a good idea.  Sometimes a mugger may set you up by asking if you have a light, then mug you while you have your hand in your pocket.  If he's after your wallet, take out the wallet and toss it on the ground in front of him.  Do not hand it to him.  He will more likely be distracted or run off if he has to pick up the wallet and it's scattered contents from the ground.  This may give you time to get away as well.  

Don't display a gun to a would be aggressor unless you are willing to kill him.  It may happen that a would be aggressor will not be deterred by the sight of a gun.  If this happens and he walks toward you, you must not allow him to get your gun or to harm you.  You may have to shoot him, even if he is, or appears to be, unarmed.  This would be a very hard thing to do for most folks including myself.

Carrying is very serious business and requires a serious attitude and a great responsibility.  I haven't met Lazs but he sounds like someone worth knowing.  From reading his posts I would feel perfectly comfortable around Lazs.



Les

[B@tfinkV]

good post leslie, some very good advice.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by lazs2
You are more likely to be attacked or mugged than you are to be in a wreck where a seatbelt would save you..  but.. they make us wear seatbelts.

Another winner from the forums most retarded poster.

Use of safety belts at the time of a crash makes a significant difference in hospitalization outcomes. One person in six (17%) who was wearing a safety belt at the time of the crash was hospitalized compared to one person in three (32%) who was not wearing a safety belt at the time of the crash. (NHTSA, 2005)

Ejection from a vehicle is one of the most injurious events that can happen to a person in a crash. In fatal crashes in 2004, 74 percent of the passenger vehicle occupants who were totally ejected from the vehicle where killed. Safety belts are effective in preventing total ejections; only one percent of the occupants who used restraints were totally ejected, compared with 29 percent of unrestrained occupants. (NHTSA, 2005)

Research has found that lap/shoulder safety belts, when used, reduce the risk of fatal injury to front-seat passenger car occupants by 45 percent and the risk of moderate-to-critical injury by 50 percent. For light truck occupants, safety belts reduce the risk of fatal injury by 60 percent and moderate-to-critical injury by 65 percent. (NHTSA, 2005)

It is estimated that 451 children under age 5 were saved as a result of child restraint use in 2004; if all children under 5 had used child safety seats an estimated 566 lives (that is, an additional 114) could have been saved. An estimated 7,472 lives were saved by child restraints from 1975-2004. (NHTSA, 2005)

From 1975 through 2004, it is estimated that safety belts saved 195,382 lives, including 15,434 lives saved in 2004. If all passenger vehicle occupants over age 4 wore safety belts, 21,273 lives (that is, an additional 5,839) could have been saved in 2004. (NHTSA, 2005)

[B@tfinkV]

well despite how accurate  or honest these statistics may be Hortlund.....My brother has a young friend called james lock who was thrown clear of his car when it rolled 3 times. He was thrown clear and broke some bones but the light weight car was totaly crushed by the time it stopped, collapsing the drivers compartment as there was no roll bars or reinforced structure. The police said not wearing a seat belt may have saved his life.
 My father's sister was also in an accident back in the 80s where she was ejected from a convertable and suffered mild injuries.

whatever the hard facts and stats about this subject dictate, both these people survived only because they had no seatbelt on. whatever the evidence suggests, you try telling them that they should have worn a belt in those accidents and they will disagree till they die.

Personaly i have been in three or four accidents all of which i was wearing my belt and protected from serious injury because of it. I will always wear my belt. That doesnt mean that one day, with enough bad luck, wearing a seatbelt in an accident may infact cause me more injury than not wearing one.

Statistics show a broad range to prove a point working on the law of averages.

Life experience only needs one single event to shape that individual's view point.

nobody can tell you that your views are wrong, all they can do is throw statistics in your face to show you what happened to everyone else and therefore proving that your lucky escape was a very low % chance. Never the less, for the individual concerned, that small % chance was enough to preserve life. So statistics mean zip for one man, they simply are used to show the most likely outcome when all accidents are added together and averaged like a 3rd grade math problem.

[lazs2]

hortlund... you overthought it.   you lost the trees for the forest...

for you lefties... please review stats...  even if you take the most bizzare (how do they know what WOULD have happened?) of his stats...

You are talking maybe..  what?  lets get wild here and say that in the fatal crashes...  10% are saved by seatbelts...  

Now say we have 50,000 deaths in the US from fatal crashes... even counting running someone down... that is,   Ta da...  5,000 people a year saved from seatbelts out of 300 million people in the US...

Now... how many muggings and assaults are there in the US every year?   We have 4 times that just in killings.. not counting rape and assault and property and .. on and on..

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

From that site... there are 1,400,000 violent crimes in the US every year.

Now.. one of you parrot, empty headed lefties please explain how seatbelts save the lives of 1.4 million Americans every year????

sheesh... like talking to sean penn or my kalifornia rep.

lazs