Females in combat zones/jobs. Good Idea? Bad idea?

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
there are always going to be exceptions in every facet of life..  that does not mean that the exception should be the rule.

lazs

You just contradicted yourself, Lazs, in view of your previous and repeated characterization of all women as being the same as those women who marry death row inmates.

Extremely few women are interested in the scum occupying death row... not the all women.

As I have previously stated and hope to avoid rehashing... the majority of women and men do not choose to be in the military but one in six people in the military are women.

Sometimes you are like a one trick pony with your anti-female blah blah blah dear.

If a female version of a Lazs were ever to start posting on this BBS, she would no doubt be run off in nothing flat... you guys would not tolerate it...  and no doubt you would be leading that parade, sweetie pie.



TIGERESS

[lazs2]

not sure I follow you or that you spoke to the statement of mine that you quoted.   I don't feel that I have contradicted myself.   Nor do I feel that I am "anti female"

I may be "anti female trying to be men"  but that is not the same thing.


please explain what you meant.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
not sure I follow you or that you spoke to the statement of mine that you quoted.   I don't feel that I have contradicted myself.   Nor do I feel that I am "anti female"

I may be "anti female trying to be men"  but that is not the same thing.


please explain what you meant.

lazs

Ok, in previous conversations, you have repeatedly told me that all women are "blah blah blah" because "they" marry death row inmates... characterizing all women as those idiots.

You refused to accept my contention that these few idiots did not represent all women and were instead exceptions to the norm.

 If you like, I can quote ya...

Now I show a report of a woman bare-handedly killing a man and you respond with ... that’s an exception. It is an exception and I agree.

However, it seems you contradict yourself to me depending on the point you are trying to make.

There are women who marry death row inmates but they are in the extreme minority; they are exceptions. You disagreed.

You can't have it both ways Lazs.

Characterizing women as trying to be male who challenge male stereotyping of women, is what it is... male sexist bias.

A man is something that I am not; granted you guys got a lot of perks but I am content to be what I am... not limited to what you think I should or should be doing according to you.

Attacking a woman's femininity is a common tactic employed to suppress us and reflects poorly on men who try to use that tactic.

One on one with an average man bent on killing me and all things being equal I don't stand a chance.

But I, like most women, possess the intelligence to bring him down nonetheless by switching the odds to our favor if possible and if pushed into it with no way out, I would do it with total ruthlessness and probably shoot him in the back... and empty the gun... while he slept.

Self-preservation is a human instinct.

TIGERESS

PS: I think about everything has been discussed and we are now in a repeating re-hash mode.

I see that as pointless.

So say what you wish to say and have the last word... I will now retire from this thread. Ok?

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Tigeress
Men are stronger and more aggressive and more dominate than women... nothing will ever change that, dear.

Based solely on those traits alone, we are not equal.

Don't think i agree with that.

But we are equally human and our achievements do not diminish men; our achievements simply show that we are adult human beings; not children and not sub-human, not lesser forms of life.

Totally agree with that.

I find males typical of their gender to be quite attractive; I have no aspirations to be one; and that, dear, is an honest and solemn promise.

No comment

I just believe in the freedom this country was founded on for all people to reach their potential, if they so choose.

Yep i agree with that.

Perhaps some of your thinking about your own gender keeps you not all the way equal. Maybe if you became a powerlifter you could kick Mike Tyson's butt. Some of that stuff you say about women ain't all the way true.

You can't want the same job and expect to be treated like the damsel in distress all the time.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Tigeress
Jackal, I am sure you are pretty much just playing the devil's advocate... I have learned to an extent, from your expressed nature here on the BBS, that you are a good guy.

 Huh?

BTW, Peggy Whitson is not just an astronaut; Peggy is the Commander of the International Space Station.

Since you didn`t answer the question I have to assume that you view the career of astronaut to be a male role as viewed by society in general. How you figure that I have no idea. We sent monkeys into space. So what`s the deal with Peggy Whitson in terms of females in a combat zone. They don`t have a lot of firefights on the launch pad that i can recollect.

What particular women have achieved in combat as Russian combatants is a matter of record.

As casualy as I can put it........screw Russia. I certainly wouldn`t desire to have anything that I can think of patterned after Russia. Desperation breeds some weird actions.

In my opinion, if it were all up to women there wouldn't be any combat... war is a male invention born of his aggressiveness and need to dominate not just us women but also all other men and the world.

Horse biscuits!!!!
Sorry, but that is the biggest wagon load of manure you have posted to date.
If it were left up to women their would be wars over a wind direction change.
A truck load sale on Chanel #5 could cause a global conflict if left up to women.

That fact that a woman can kill a man is just that... a fact.

The common cold can, if left untreated, kill a man. That has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

As for the Intruder story you posted.................This is supposed to mean what exactly?
If it had been my better half he would have been lucky not to receive a quick double tap between the peepers...................... .BUT that is not a combat zone and it does not compromise the safety of other combatants.
This is a good example though. You have a tendency to wander aimlessly from one subject to another and I suppose, in your, mind they are related.
It`s understandable.....constant mood swings, emotion changes at the rate of fire equal to Puff The Magic Dragon.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by LEADPIG
Don't think i agree with that.

Perhaps some of your thinking about your own gender keeps you not all the way equal. Maybe if you became a powerlifter you could kick Mike Tyson's butt. Some of that stuff you say about women ain't all the way true.

Dear Lead,

This I don't see as a rehash of what had been discussed to death on the thread.

Why would I want to be "equal all the way" in the context you are using the term equal?

That would nuteralize me as a woman. No thanks.

I don't want to be something I am not, Lead.

I just dont want to be given the idiot treatment nor treated like a child and told like a child that I can not do something I want to do that is within the scope of my gender and personal abilities.

Bulking up and kicking Mike Tyson's butt is a guy thing and is not on my radar.  I just don't think like that.

I don't want to hurt people physically yet forced self-defense or defense of others is what it is.

If I need to do that I will employ an equalizer... If I were forced into a gun fight with no way out of it I would like to bring an A-10 Warthog.

The concept of "equal" is critical, Lead.

That was the whole problem with the Equal Rights Amendment and the reason it was not ratified.

In my opinion, it broke down the fundemental and desireable differences of the sexes for the sake of sameness.

Phooey to that!

Men are human, like us, but special with regards to that which makes them male.

Women are human but special with regards to that which makes us female.

That specialness is very important for everyone who is hetero... 96% of the 6 plus billion people on the planet.

Males and females are equally special and equally different.

Males and females are both equally human.

The male and female genders do not equal each other.

I think the concepts of "equal" are at issue here.

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

tigress.. would you agree that it is far more likely that a woman would marry a murderer or worthless male than it is that they will kill a man bare handed in a fair fight?

There are exceptions and then there are exceptions... it is a matter of degree.   your exception is like getting killed by a meteorite.. mine.. like getting in a bad car wreck.

The differences between men and women are not in the least social constructs.

It has been proven that boys and girls are different in many ways from almost birth.. I have raised both boys and girls and am raising a grand daughter.    Not to get too personal but have you raised children?

I ask because most who say men and women are the same never have raised kids.. most who realize they are different have spent many years watching kids grow up.

Putting women in combat when there is no reason is crossing the line in a way that is simply wrong.  It is over the top...  the same for firemen and policemen.. they shouldn't be either.

lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
tigress.. would you agree that it is far more likely that a woman would marry a murderer or worthless male than it is that they will kill a man bare handed in a fair fight?

There are exceptions and then there are exceptions... it is a matter of degree.   your exception is like getting killed by a meteorite.. mine.. like getting in a bad car wreck.

The differences between men and women are not in the least social constructs.

It has been proven that boys and girls are different in many ways from almost birth.. I have raised both boys and girls and am raising a grand daughter.    Not to get too personal but have you raised children?

I ask because most who say men and women are the same never have raised kids.. most who realize they are different have spent many years watching kids grow up.

Putting women in combat when there is no reason is crossing the line in a way that is simply wrong.  It is over the top...  the same for firemen and policemen.. they shouldn't be either.

lazs

Although you avoided my question about your military background I will answer your question. I raised two boys.

Only a freeking nut job would be interested in marrying a freeking death row inmate, Lazs. That is the exception.

It is far more likely a male will kill a female with bare hands than the reverse but... it does happen thus it is true that a woman "can" do it meaning it is possible though not probable.

You are misconstruing what I said Lazs.

I was speaking of society's definition of gender ROLES as social constructs. Roles.. you know... like something actors do or politicians do.

"Men work in the workplace."

"Women stay home and are homemakers."

"Men go to war."

"Women stay home."

Those are societial gender roles.

Of course males and females are different!!!!! jeez @#$%^&$%

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

men go to war and kill others and women do not.. is not a social construct.

You need to look at violent crime stats of men and women if you think that we are the same and that our nature is simply a social construct.


lazs

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
men go to war and kill others and women do not.. is not a social construct.

You need to look at violent crime stats of men and women if you think that we are the same and that our nature is simply a social construct.


lazs

Some women do go to war; some men do stay home.

Regardless of what society thinks are gender roles.

Society continues to grow up, to learn, thus it is changing... the biology of men and women is a constant.

I certainly don't want to go to war unless I have to and I think most men and women feel the same way. Thankfully this country is not in a position to need to draft women into a war.

Lazs, again... we are not the same.

How many freeking times do I have to rehash this?????????

Actual Biological Gender Differences are not the same thing as socially defined gender roles!

Socially defined gender roles is Cultural determinism.

See --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_determinism

In the not too distant past, Society deemed women as deserving limited rights on a level with a minor, a child, because the socially definded role of a husband was defined as being solely responsible for his wife and children in all matters.

Why do you think religion thus the law looks sternly upon divorce?

It isn't to protect the husband, rather to protect the wife and children.

We are not children!!!!!!!!

Those of us who totally depend on our husband for food, clothing and shelter and health care are pretty much at his mercy and dependability.

Personally, I didn't like being at someone's mercy... been there; done that.
I choose to be self-sufficient from a money standpoint to protect myself and be a financial contributor to the marriage, not a consumer.
 
Socially defined "gender roles" are "things society thinks men and women should and should not do."

Women can't sucessfully play men's pro football against men or sucessfully compete against men as prize fighters and that is not a limitation placed on women by society, it is a biological limitation.

If there were those of us who could successfully do that, there would be some women doing it inspite of what society thinks is and is not "a woman's place."

I certainly would not do it and most other women wouldn't be interested either.

I have reviewed the violent crime stats in the past and just did so again...

Men are more likely than women to be a victim of a violent crime and homicide.

In general, for both fatal and non-fatal violence, we women are at higher risk than men to be victimized by an intimate meaning spouse or love interest.

From the US Department of Justice--> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fvvc.pdf

I swear... sometimes I think you purposefully confuscate/confuse the issues on purpose in an effort to play a shell game.

TIGERESS

[lazs2]

tigress... calm down and read.   I didn't say that men were the victims of violent crimes...  what I was saying was that men instigate violent crime.   Men are more violent than women... war is violence.

war may or may not require upper body strength but.. when it does.. you better have it.

Policemen and firemen lowering the standards to let women in is also crossing the line...  So far as I know.. no policemen were ever raped before they started allowing women in.. the dirty little secret is the amount of women police that are attacked compared to the men.    

I weigh 185 lbs.. If I am in a fire and a fireman responds and I need to be carried out.. I want the fireman to be able to.  

Men and women are different.. you keep telling me that but then you seem to be saying that it only matters when you want it to matter.  I am glad that you think the divorce laws are unjust... how do you feel about assault laws?  

My point is that the law is unequal because it recognizes that women can't defend themselves against men.   the law is right.   to pretend that a woman soldier or policeman is a good thing is to ignore this fact.

To pretend that men will not react differently to a wounded or captured woman soldier is to deny facts.

You simply can't have it both ways.. we are either different or we are not.. we are either ideally suited to some jobs better than women or we are all equal in everything.

lazs

[expat]

Shoot the Women First
hmmm read that ...seems lazs is correct , women are more idealy suited to some things more than men

[AWMac]

Hmmm.....

What would Tom Cruise do?



Mac

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
tigress... calm down and read.   I didn't say that men were the victims of violent crimes...  what I was saying was that men instigate violent crime.   Men are more violent than women... war is violence.

war may or may not require upper body strength but.. when it does.. you better have it.

Policemen and firemen lowering the standards to let women in is also crossing the line...  So far as I know.. no policemen were ever raped before they started allowing women in.. the dirty little secret is the amount of women police that are attacked compared to the men.    

I weigh 185 lbs.. If I am in a fire and a fireman responds and I need to be carried out.. I want the fireman to be able to.  

Men and women are different.. you keep telling me that but then you seem to be saying that it only matters when you want it to matter.  I am glad that you think the divorce laws are unjust... how do you feel about assault laws?  

My point is that the law is unequal because it recognizes that women can't defend themselves against men.   the law is right.   to pretend that a woman soldier or policeman is a good thing is to ignore this fact.

To pretend that men will not react differently to a wounded or captured woman soldier is to deny facts.

You simply can't have it both ways.. we are either different or we are not.. we are either ideally suited to some jobs better than women or we are all equal in everything.

lazs

You and I both know that generally speaking, on a physical level, men and women are not equals. Men are superior. I have said that before.

In really heavy physical jobs men are better suited than women.

That is why women are not in the infantry.

TIGERESS

[SIG220]

We have to have women in combat roles, as our enemies are doing it.

In Russia's Special Forces, for example, an elite Airborne Assault group has an all female reconnaissance and sabotage platoon.   It would be their role in war to go behind the enemy lines, and gather intelligence, and commit acts of sabotage.

Here is a photo of some of the women who are in this elite unit:









Women are also serving in the armed forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran: