Author Topic: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again (Read 2813 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #45 on:** January 03, 2008, 09:49:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn

Return to prison/jail rate
------------------------------------------------------
National 52%
Arizona 41%
Maricopa County 60%
Maricopa DUI repeat offenders 40%

source: The Maricopa County Attorney's Office
[/B]

Hang on... so, if I'm reading this right, Maricopa County has a higher recidivism rate than both the state and national average? What was this figure before the sheriff, I wonder?

Maverick · « **Reply #46 on:** January 03, 2008, 09:55:35 AM »

Keep something in mind before relying on stats regarding the jail.

County jails have 2 functions, holding folks for arraignment / trial both misdemeanor and felony and holding those who have been sentenced to jail for misdemeanors. Unless you separate felony prisoner stats from the misdemeanors you can't draw a conclusion regarding recidivism and the jail conditions / Joe's tactics.

Chairboy · « **Reply #47 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:02:30 AM »

Fair enough. I'd be interested in seeing figures that _do_ take that into account. If his tactics reduce recidivism, then the data should indicate it, and other jails should take note.

bongaroo · « **Reply #48 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:02:42 AM »

I was reading another article mentioning how his goonies broke a parapalegics neck further disabiling him and were seen having a good laugh about it on the video. thats messed up.

Maverick · « **Reply #49 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:08:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
I was reading another article mentioning how his goonies broke a parapalegics neck further disabiling him and were seen having a good laugh about it on the video. thats messed up.

Link?

bongaroo · « **Reply #50 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:14:12 AM »

ask and you shall receive

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-01-23/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1

he was put in the "chair" for being too vocal of his need to urinate, he needed a catheter. instead he gets strapped into a chair and they break his neck.

theres being tough on crime and crimals and then theres inhumane.

thanks for finding those stats, looks like joe isn't keeping crime from getting any worse, go figure

Maverick · « **Reply #51 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:19:42 AM »

Do you have something other than a tabloid?

SteveBailey · « **Reply #52 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:20:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tango
So why was the kid struggling? IF he had stopped then he might still be alive.

That's a tough question. some might read this as if you are saying: If you struggle, you deserve a death sentence.

Who knows what that kid did off camera? I suspect he was resisting to some affect or he wouldn't have attracted so much guard attention. Additionally, Norberg had assaulted a Mesa police officer that same day so LE was probably already wary of this guy since he showed no compunction about resisting.

Still, it goes back to the chair. Nationally, several inmates have been killed while in the restraint chair and since I do not think resisting arrest(without a weapon) warrants a death sentence, I'm concerned that the chair may be a tool that needs upgrading/replacing.... YMMV.

SteveBailey · « **Reply #53 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:24:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
ask and you shall receive

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-01-23/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1

Please keep in mind that the source is a free publication that doesn't really qualify as a newspaper. This publication answers to no entity as to the validity of their claims and is famously anti-Arpaio. This is not a source for unbiased info on Arpaio. Neither is the AZ Republic, a notoriously left wing rag.

Chairboy · « **Reply #54 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:28:38 AM »

Regarding the "if he hadn't struggled, he would have lived" comment, there's something I don't understand. In an asphyxiation situation, death doesn't happen immediately. First, the body struggles, then unconsciousness comes, then a while after that, death.

If the death was a result of him struggling, why did he die after becoming unconscious? Unless, of course, the suggestion is that his unconscious body continued struggling? That doesn't make sense.

SteveBailey · « **Reply #55 on:** January 03, 2008, 10:30:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn

Return to prison/jail rate
------------------------------------------------------
National 52%
Arizona 41%
Maricopa County 60%
Maricopa DUI repeat offenders 40%

2000 2006 change
------------------------------------------------------
Felony filings: 26,317 29,662 +12.7%

source: The Maricopa County Attorney's Office
[/B]

These numbers have no bearing whatsoever, whether they reflect positively or not. Maricopa county includes the Phoenix metro area, one of the largest cities in the US. Crime rates are higher in large cities than in rural areas and smaller towns. Of course the numbers will be higher than the national average. Also, the large illegal alien population will skew the numbers dramatically compared to the national average. I'm not saying Maricopa county is statistically better off w/ Arpaio, although that's the feeling among 80% of voters, I am saying that these numbers are moot.

rpm · « **Reply #56 on:** January 03, 2008, 12:08:14 PM »

Let me jump back in the discussion for a sec.

Mav, I would'nt consider NewTimes a tabloid. National Enquirer, The Weekly World News, ect. are tabloids. NewTimes (and their other papers across the country) are alternative newspapers that tend to cover stories that other media outlets tend not to report. In fact most stories in these have quite a bit more investigative journalism. The Dallas Observer and Fort Worth Weekly are both the same type and have very good track records of being on the mark.

As for the stats, they don't seem to paint a very flattering picture. Like I said in my original post, if you play "cowboy sheriff" long enough you're eventually going to screw the pooch. I've followed Arpaio off and on since the whole tent city and pink underwear thing. He's had some good ideas and he's also become very fond of seeing himself on TV. It's usually the latter that will tend to get you in pooch screwing position.

bongaroo · « **Reply #57 on:** January 03, 2008, 12:25:50 PM »

fine, i'm digging for this at work so not really doing a good job, i'll have more on it soon.

here's a mention of it

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

the counties agreement that they won't be treating people so inhumanely anymore

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1997/October97/451cr.htm.html

you've got to get to the middle of this one for the stuff on joe, but its cited and an interesting read, i'm looking through its sources now

http://www.ftpress.com/articles/article.aspx?p=440159&rl=1

and as stated by rpm, that newspaper isn't a tabloid, i found these to show that its not just a made up story. the county ended up settling with him for 800,000. i think joe just likes seeing his name in lights, it'll bite him in the bellybutton eventually

Tango · « **Reply #58 on:** January 03, 2008, 01:54:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Let's block your airway and see if you struggle.

I'd have to give them reason a reason to do that first. Why was he struggling?

Even if I'm pulled over by a bad cop. I'm still gonna say "yes and no sir" and co-operate to avoid trouble. Maybe if more people would do this and seek out a lawyer afterwards there would be less violence involved.

NOW answer my question, why was he struggling?

SteveBailey · « **Reply #59 on:** January 03, 2008, 02:05:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Let me jump back in the discussion for a sec.

I would'nt consider NewTimes a tabloid.

No, but I don't consider it a reliable source, either.

I'd like a reasoned answer for this: If Arpaio is such a pox on AZ, why does he have an 85% approval rating?