Author Topic: who made the best cc weapons in WW2?  (Read 6805 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2008, 09:50:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Loading Garand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQe5zz3l8vc


I own garands.  Notice the use of an "S".  This signifies plural.  Meaning more than one in the english language.  


Besides just the action of reloading, the total time from shot to shot in reloading would be MUCH longer for the other bolt action rifles.  Depending on the rifle and the settings, a bolt action rifle may even close the bolt on an empty gun.  And then based on the K98k action (which I own several), it'll stay open when empty.  However, that doesn't stop you from trying to close it, and wasting precious time til you actually start reloading.

This isn't a problem on the Garand.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2008, 09:50:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
The BAR was far too heavy. The Bren Gun was better, but still too heavy.


As a true light squad automatic weapon, the BAR was without peer. The BAR is not really all that heavy, unless of course you compare it to some of the modern weapons that are made of lighter materials, and also use smaller and less powerful ammunition.
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Offline lasersailor184

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2008, 09:53:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvzZgjY8Ntg&NR=1


Not too lucky with that one though.


That's a springfield modern created Garand chambered in .308.  There were several differences in the action.  Namely pressing down on the follower on that new model DOES NOT release the bolt to close.


Any serviceman who has ever used a real Garand can tell you about "Garand Thumb."  I in fact, caught my thumb once.
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Offline Slash27

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2008, 09:54:19 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
All battle rifles of that era was clip/strip fed like that (except the Enfield).


The MP44 seems more of a rifle than a "machine pistol" to me.

Offline Viking

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2008, 09:55:49 PM »
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Originally posted by Slash27
The MP44 seems more of a rifle than a "machine pistol" to me.



Yes it was later renamed to StG44. It's not a battle rifle though. It's an assault rifle.


And to amend by previous posts, most Enfields had fixed magazines too, with strip loading.

Offline lasersailor184

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2008, 09:56:05 PM »
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Originally posted by Slash27
The MP44 seems more of a rifle than a "machine pistol" to me.


MP was merely a name, due to Hitler's proclamation that development should only be focused on SMG's.  Upon actually testing it himself, he issued a new name of Sturmgewehr (Assault Rifle) STG-44.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2008, 09:56:14 PM »
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Originally posted by Arlo
Seems we're fans of the same WWII personal arms hardware. ;)

Cod I love me some older Colt, though. :D


They're not the only ones I'm a fan of, but for the most part, having handled a lot of the hardware available at the time, I find that in my opinion, those are among the most effective and reliable.

I do like the Mauser rifle a great deal (as well as the Enfield and especially the Springfield bolt actions that I find to be powerful as well), the Walther pistol, and the Luger too. Not too big a fan of the Japanese or Russian stuff. The German assault rifle was an innovation all unto itself.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2008, 09:57:24 PM »
First of all, are you meaning a Real-life comparison, or one made for Video games? There is quite some difference between RL and Video games.

For the most part, I'm kinda like Arlo, My bias tends' to American iron. I'd certainly pick a Garand for myself, It's got a great long-range cartridge (.30-06) and is very accurate, especially for a Mass-produced service rifle. There were Semi-automatic rifles' made by other countries and issued (The Soviet SVT-40 and the german G-41 come to mind) but not as widespread as the Garand.

For Sub-guns, it starts' to become more of a matter of application. The Thompson, in it's various forms, fired the .45 ACP cartridge, which gave each round very good stopping power. But many argue that the Thompson was Heavy and over-complicated for what it was; But having a heavier gun while firing full-auto would help control recoil, thus helping your aim. However, you can compare the Tommy with something like the MP-40, which fired the 9mm Para. There are a lot of accounts' that speak highly of the MP-40, which equipped quite a few of the Wehrmacht during WWII. The Brits' built the sten, which also fired the 9mm(Useful, you could use captured german ammo, If you were running short). The Sten was an emergency design, hashed out right after Dunkirk, but was succesful enough that it's improved versions' were used for some time after WWII.
The PPsH-41 was a good, sound, simple design, that was mass produced and issued in huge numbers. It did have a very high rate of fire(900-1100 rpm.) But it did fire a smaller cartridge, with somewhat less knockdown power than the 9mm or the .45ACP.

For Squad-Automatic weapons' and MMG's, There were so many used we could start a whole 'nother thread on this topic alone. But some have said that the Bren gun (UK) was one of the best LMG's used in the war, and the German MG-34 and MG-42 were two of the first, and best, GPMG's used.

Tell ya what, Bat, since my fingers' and wrists' are starting to get tired, I'll throw you some links' to sites to check out.

http://www.geocities.com/pizzatest/panzerfaust7.htm#mp38 (Good site on German infantry arms.)

http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/worldwar2_weapons.asp  (A general weapons' guide)

http://hk.geocities.com/guncobook/03.html (A lot of good color plates, showing different models, but not much hard info)

At this point, I can merely leave you to pick out the different models' you wish to research, and google them up yourself, Bat-There's quite a few there.

Offline Arlo

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2008, 09:57:24 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Any serviceman who has ever used a real Garand can tell you about "Garand Thumb."  I in fact, caught my thumb once.


Musta slowed your reload/fire time. In what service? ;)

Offline Slash27

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2008, 09:57:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Viking
Yes it was later renamed to StG44. It's not a battle rifle though. It's an assault rifle.


ah,  the first assault rifle isnt it?

Offline Viking

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2008, 09:58:34 PM »
Arguably, yes.

Offline lasersailor184

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2008, 10:01:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Musta slowed your reload/fire time. In what service? ;)


No service.  I only ever did catch my thumb once though.  After that, I was surely careful not to do it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDHWJO0dzc  Sorry for the crappy lighting / production values.  I'm involved with the development of a WW2 realism game, and wanted to show the action for animation development.
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Offline Arlo

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2008, 10:03:29 PM »
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
They're not the only ones I'm a fan of, but for the most part, having handled a lot of the hardware available at the time, I find that in my opinion, those are among the most effective and reliable.

I do like the Mauser rifle a great deal (as well as the Enfield and especially the Springfield bolt actions that I find to be powerful as well), the Walther pistol, and the Luger too. Not too big a fan of the Japanese or Russian stuff. The German assault rifle was an innovation all unto itself.


I had a British .303 (modified sport stock) for awhile. Gave it back to Dad when I moved here. I liked it, fine. But I wouldn't wanna go up against a Garand armed soldier with it unless I had an advantage.

Offline Arlo

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2008, 10:04:59 PM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No service.  I only ever did catch my thumb once though.  After that, I was surely careful not to do it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDHWJO0dzc  Sorry for the crappy lighting / production values.  I'm involved with the development of a WW2 realism game, and wanted to show the action for animation development.


What game didja help develop?

Offline Viking

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who made the best cc weapons in WW2?
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2008, 10:09:42 PM »
WWII "realism" game ... Is that anything like two weeks of ice cold rain, cleaning your equipment, keeping you feet dry, 20 minutes of sheer terror, two weeks of rain ... ;)